'I can't breathe' meme will lead to more deaths

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

The police have a duty to serve the community. If the community is against the police, that means that the police are screwing up.

Why won't you admit that crime produces spoils and fear in communities, and that causes some people to be biased against police? Don't you realize that if crime is paying your bills, you want police who allow the crime to go on, and otherwise you're going to complain that the police are bad?

Quote:

When angry people say "**** the police!", it is called free speech. The police are part of the state, and if people are that angry at the police, it means there is a problem that needs to be solved.

Crime is part of the problem that needs to be solved. In fact, how can you solve institutional problems when crime is not under control? If you divert attention to fixing the police and crime exploits the power vacuum, you're going to lose more young kids and other people to crime.

Quote:

When angry police say "**** the community!", they should be fired. The police are supposed to be protecting and serving the community. If they hate the people they are working for, it is impossible for them to do their jobs.

You can't equate the too.

There's nothing to equate. It's not a question of saying "F- the community" but of policing the community to liberate it from crime.

Obviously when you are trying to liberate people from something that makes them money and/or that they have learned to kiss up to because they don't want to be on the wrong side of violent/vengeful people, they are going to resist; but be objective:

is it better for a community to be dependent on crime and fearful of standing up to it or to be liberated from it so that are free to live as a law-abiding community?

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Part of the problem is that the police are not surving poor minority communities. The police are being hired by middle-class white people who expect the police to respond to the fears of middle-class white people.

The police aren't serving or protecting the actual people in the community (who are not middle-class and mostly not White). That is why the police are not getting support in these communities.

If you have a police force that actually works for these communities (instead of for outsiders), then this hostility will go away.

I started to respond to this post and then I realized you are just talking about class divisions to avoid the point of the thread, which is about more people dying because of lying criminals who are going to use "I can't breathe" as a meme to manipulate police trying to arrest them, and that is going to eventually result in "I can't breathe" being taken for granted as just a line people say instead of as a true utterance.

What's really terrible right now is that these images of kneeling are being broadcast everywhere and it strikes me as being very similar to what happened in Rwanda before the genocide there, where machetes were the tool of killing instead of kneeling, but people were riled up by classist/racist rhetoric against the Tutsis and eventually public passion turned into mass murder.

1 Reply

@livinglava,

Quote:

is it better for a community to be dependent on crime and fearful of standing up to it or to be liberated from it so that are free to live as a law-abiding community?

Let's ask the question this way. If a community thinks crime is better than having police.... what does that say about the police?

People who live, work and raise children in these communities are saying that the police are doing more harm than good. This means to me that the police are ******* up.

1 Reply

@livinglava,

If the police stop choking people to death, than the "I can't breath" will be meaningless.

I understand your fear that someone might say "I can't breath" to manipulate a police officer into not choking them.... but hopefully you see that a police officer who doesn't choke people won't have this problem.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Quote:
is it better for a community to be dependent on crime and fearful of standing up to it or to be liberated from it so that are free to live as a law-abiding community?

Let's ask the question this way. If a community thinks crime is better than having police.... what does that say about the police?

Nothing. It says that crime bribes and intimidates people into accepting them, and then they resent police whom they see as trouble-makers for standing up to crime instead of just looking the other way.

Quote:

People who live, work and raise children in these communities are saying that the police are doing more harm than good. This means to me that the police are ******* up.

Well they're not going to say that crime is doing more harm than good if they're getting cut into the profits and/or if they're afraid to get bullied if they so much as say one negative word against crime and/or anyone involved in it.

The mere fact that people feel safe to protest police proves that the police are not fascist. If they were as fascist as crime, people wouldn't dare to say anything against them for fear of retaliation, which is why I assume they don't/won't speak out against crime.

1 Reply

@livinglava,

In your world, do the police have any responsibility?

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

In your world, do the police have any responsibility?

In yours, do criminals?

1 Reply

@livinglava,

livinglava wrote:

maxdancona wrote:

In your world, do the police have any responsibility?

In yours, do criminals?

No. Criminals are outside the law. I expect them to act like criminals.

The police are supposed to be the law. When the police act like criminals, we are screwed. Police have a job to do, and a duty to serve the community in which they work.

You don't seem to see the difference between police and criminals.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

livinglava wrote:

maxdancona wrote:

In your world, do the police have any responsibility?

In yours, do criminals?

No. Criminals are outside the law. I expect them to act like criminals.

Well, my point is that when they cry wolf and use memes like, 'I can't breathe' to manipulate police, they are causing a situation where some police are going to fail to take someone seriously when they say it and another person is going to suffocate because they really meant that they couldn't breathe and they weren't just trying to get a hand loose to punch the cop.

Quote:

The police are supposed to be the law. When the police act like criminals, we are screwed. Police have a job to do, and a duty to serve the community in which they work.

Police are human beings. Most are better than you or I at resisting the provocations and lies of criminals, but anyone can get worn down to the point of making mistakes.

What you don't seem to want to realize is that we need police and the people who accept the challenge of that job shouldn't be subject to "I can't breathe" becoming a meme to manipulate them emotionally while they are doing their job. When a cop hear's someone say, "I can't breathe," the only thing that they should have to think about it how to allow the person to breathe without failing to detain them.

Quote:

You don't seem to see the difference between police and criminals.

You don't seem to understand that both criminals and police are human and all behaviors are a product of human nature.

1 Reply

@livinglava,

When protesters say "hands up! don't shoo!" do you worried that some criminal might manipulate a police officer into not shooting them by putting their hands up?

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

When protesters say "hands up! don't shoo!" do you worried that some criminal might manipulate a police officer into not shooting them by putting their hands up?

When someone's hands are up, you can see they are empty-handed, and you have a gun pointed at them, so I can't think of any way to manipulate that situation.

When you are being handcuffed and restrained, you are in close proximity so there is a risk you can throw an elbow, shoulder, jerk your head and head-butt, or otherwise assault the person trying to restrain you.

As I said before, if it was a one-time thing that someone was saying they can't breathe, you would take the chance of getting punched or head-butted to change postures to save their life, i.e. because that is worth the risk of getting punched/head-butted.

But now let me ask you how many punches or head-butts you would have to go through on different occasions before you reach the point of just assuming that suspects lie to get an advantage and hurt you as retaliation for arresting them?

1 Reply

@livinglava,

You know my son is a police officer right? He thinks you are being ridiculous.

The police are trained to arrest people without putting either the officer or the suspect in any risk. They are professionals. That is their job. If a suspect dies while in police custody, that means the police officer fucked up. My son understands this.

If the choice is either risking life or letting a suspect get away, it is preferable to let suspects get away. Everyone understands this.

Despite what you think... good police officers who care about the lives of the people they are arresting are still able to make arrests.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

You know my son is a police officer right? He thinks you are being ridiculous.

The police are trained to arrest people without putting either the officer or the suspect in any risk. They are professionals. That is their job. If a suspect dies while in police custody, that means the police officer fucked up. My son understands this.

If the choice is either risking life or letting a suspect get away, it is preferable to let suspects get away. Everyone understands this.

Despite what you think... good police officers who care about the lives of the people they are arresting are still able to make arrests.

You have avoided every point I've made about liberating people from crime. It leads me to suspect you're on the side of crime, which enslaves people.

A slave holder doesn't kill the slaves because otherwise they can't be kept alive for exploitation. That is how crime works.

When you say that keeping people alive is the most important thing, that denies that letting criminals go allows them to go straight back to their slave/crime bosses for further exploitation.

1 Reply

@livinglava,

You are being silly...

A Black man was captured by a group of White men. They tied him up, overpowered him and put a knee on his neck while he cried for them to stop as he died.

How does this relate to being liberated from slavery?

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

You are being silly...

A Black man was captured by a group of White men. They tied him up, overpowered him and put a knee on his neck while he cried for them to stop as he died.

How does this relate to being liberated from slavery?

Because the media have made a spectacle of it, created a meme out of the phrase, "I can't breathe," which is going to lead to criminals saying it when it's not really true, which is going to desensitize cops to it, and for some reason you brought up the issue of people in poor neighborhoods being against the police being proof that they're bad and that it couldn't possibly have to do with being afraid of pissing off criminals who bully them and exploit their kids in various ways, which is a form of slavery that you don't want to admit is slavery because you seem to be on the side of crime for some reason (maybe you're a slave to it in some way?).

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

When protesters say "hands up! don't shoo!" do you worried that some criminal might manipulate a police officer into not shooting them by putting their hands up?

When protesters say "Hands Up! Don't shoot!" the protesters are lying about the criminal having had his hands up.

The criminal was actually in the process of beating a police officer to death with those hands when he was shot.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

If the choice is either risking life or letting a suspect get away, it is preferable to let suspects get away. Everyone understands this.

There is a third better option: calling for backup when there are not enough officers on the scene to subdue an unruly arrestee.

Letting suspects get away when they resist arrest is not a preferable option.

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@maxdancona,

The thing that is making me nervous from this act is the demands to disband the police. You think with the police gone crooks are going to decrease in number? What a load of crap. Do we need to reform our police, yes, how about subjecting all cops to physiological. Testing and getting rid of the racists and ones not fit to carry weapons?

1 Reply

@livinglava,

...and you're response is nothing short of what's called, "trying to bamboozle someone with some very generalized description of a hypothetical event/situation".

You do understand that's exactly what police training is for, don't you? If a police officer can't make a simple arrest safely, then they should be looking for another job.

You also understand that people lie to the cops everyday, and therefore a fundamental part of their training to assess the situation, ensuring their own safety, as well as the safety of others involved, don't you? You also understand that thousands of arrests are made each and every day, in countries all over the world, and the vast majority are made WITHOUT anyone dying in the process, don't you?

I'd suggest you go back and actually read what has been said, it's not rocket science.

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@livinglava,

Don't take justaguy2 too seriously. You'll quickly see that he offers only personal attacks and no real arguments.

You'll probably be falsely accused of racism any minute now.

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'I can't breathe' meme will lead to more deaths

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