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Will this election be most polarizing ever?

 
 
Reply Thu 9 Apr, 2020 07:42 am
I think the Lincoln-Douglas election was the most polarizing in US history, but maybe the two parties are as polarized now as then.

Assuming Republicans and Democrats have reached 'peak-polarization,' what do you think can/will change about either or both parties in the coming years to make them less polarized and/or make it more likely for voters to potentially vote for either party in an election.

Currently, I think that most people are completely committed to one party or the other with it being almost unimaginable that anyone would 'cross the picket line' to vote for someone of the other party.

Do you think this is an accurate assessment, and if so, in what way do you think it could change in the future?
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maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Apr, 2020 07:56 am
I suspect that this will be a rather uneventful election. Trump will lose, and soon be forgotten as a failed, one-term president.

This year will be remembered for the epidemic. Trump will be nothing more than a difficult answer to some future version of Trivial Pursuit.

I could be wrong, but that is my best guess.

livinglava
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Apr, 2020 08:14 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I suspect that this will be a rather uneventful election. Trump will lose, and soon be forgotten as a failed, one-term president.

This year will be remembered for the epidemic. Trump will be nothing more than a difficult answer to some future version of Trivial Pursuit.

I could be wrong, but that is my best guess.

Do you think Trump will lose because Republicans vote for the Democrat candidate, or despite the fact that Republicans avoid voting for the Democrat?

I can't imagine any Republicans voting Democrat at this point, but do you think some will for some reason?

I certainly can't imagine any Democrats voting for Trump.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Apr, 2020 08:26 am
@livinglava,
I think Trump has lost middle America. The Democrats will vote for Biden. The Right-wing Republicans will vote for Trump (as expected). The middle will swing to Biden. The election will be rather boring.
livinglava
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Apr, 2020 09:48 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I think Trump has lost middle America. The Democrats will vote for Biden. The Right-wing Republicans will vote for Trump (as expected). The middle will swing to Biden. The election will be rather boring.

You say "Trump has lost . . ." but do you think 'middle America' can muster up enough faith in ObamaVP Biden to vote Obamacare/stimulus/etc. back in?

Do you really think people were that satisfied with the Obama regime and all it (has) brought with it (including the Trump after-effect)?

What reason would anyone 'swing to Biden?' What aspects of Trump 1 do you think they are so dissatisfied about, which they won't attribute to all the anti-Trump negativity from the opposing party?
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Apr, 2020 10:26 am
@livinglava,
Obviously what I am writing is my speculation... I am not going to argue it too much (we will soon see if I am correct).

1. A reelection campaign is often seen as a referendum on the incumbent. Because Trump is such a polarizing figure, and because he has had such a tumultuous term, this will be especially true of this election. I think the Democratic nominee is irrelevant.

2. Obama is still seen positively by two thirds of Americans. However, people are going to be focused on the past 4 years. Who is thinking about 2015 now?

3. Lots of middle Americans who voted for Trump will swing to Biden. Anyone who is upset with Trump's handling of the Corona virus, farmers or blue collar workers who were hurt by his trade war will swing to Biden. As will anyone who is upset with the Georgia scandal, or upset with his attacks on women, or his twitter posts....
livinglava
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Apr, 2020 10:44 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Obviously what I am writing is my speculation... I am not going to argue it too much (we will soon see if I am correct).

I think you're more interested in saying what you want to happen in the form of a prediction than you are interested in actually discussing what you think may or will happen and why.

Quote:
1. A reelection campaign is often seen as a referendum on the incumbent. Because Trump is such a polarizing figure, and because he has had such a tumultuous term, this will be especially true of this election. I think the Democratic nominee is irrelevant.

That can only happen for voters who are neutral toward the Democrat alternative. I think many people are soured on the Democrats to the point that they wouldn't trust them to do what they expect them to do if they win the election. All they can really trust them to do is cooperate and facilitate in all the ways that they do once they are in control of government. For people who trust Democrat ideology/planning, that is no problem but for people who question it, it is something to avoid.

Quote:
2. Obama is still seen positively by two thirds of Americans. However, people are going to be focused on the past 4 years. Who is thinking about 2015 now?

Obama (and Michelle) are great people and politicians in lots of ways, but they got co-opted by the Democratic party for use as yes-men for economic policies that were dictated beyond their influence.

Think about it: we got cash4clunkers and then pedicabs at the 2012 Democrat convention, but by 2016 all the economic innovations were stifled because the economic stimulus worked and no one wants to innovate when it means risking revenue generated by maintaining the status quo.

That is why the Democratic party is fundamentally conservative by means of selling hope of change. If you vote for them, they will give you change with a big price tag, and the sales will stimulate the victory of the status quo. Call it conservatism-by-selling-progress, but it's ultimately not that different from conservatism by selling anything else.

Quote:
3. Lots of middle Americans who voted for Trump will swing to Biden. Anyone who is upset with Trump's handling of the Corona virus, farmers or blue collar workers who were hurt by his trade war will swing to Biden. As will anyone who is upset with the Georgia scandal, or upset with his attacks on women, or his twitter posts....

I think you underestimate the willingness of people to suffer economically for principle. You could bring them to their knees by escalating the economic suffering to the point of desperation, but they would blame progressives for the torture and not the incumbent.

The only way you could them to vote Democrat is by giving them a plan that they really believed in, but you'd also have to convince them that the plan wouldn't change once they voted it in, and I don't think there are many who would trust the Democrats to keep their word, even if they liked their plan.

People like the Republican party because they like the philosophy that liberty and not government can work for the common good. Democrats try to block the progress of liberty with regulations instead of doing what they should, i.e. facilitating legitimate choices and outlawing things that should be outlawed instead of legalized and taxed.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Apr, 2020 10:54 am
@livinglava,
I think about 35% of people are solidly conservative. They are the people you say have "soured" on Democrats. They hate Obama and will vote for Trump no matter what. These are the people who, as you say, "will suffer economically for principle".

I think a slight higher percent of people are solidly liberal (maybe 38%). They have "soured" on Republicans. The love Obama and will vote against Trump no matter what.

My speculation is that the twenty something percent in the middle will base their decision over what they think of the past 4 years. This year, they will be mostly thinking about the Trump handling of the corona virus crisis.

It is my suspicion that these middle Americans will swing largely away from Trump.

livinglava
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Apr, 2020 11:21 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I think about 35% of people are solidly conservative. They are the people you say have "soured" on Democrats. They hate Obama and will vote for Trump no matter what. These are the people who, as you say, "will suffer economically for principle".

I think a slight higher percent of people are solidly liberal (maybe 38%). They have "soured" on Republicans. The love Obama and will vote against Trump no matter what.

My speculation is that the twenty something percent in the middle will base their decision over what they think of the past 4 years. This year, they will be mostly thinking about the Trump handling of the corona virus crisis.

It is my suspicion that these middle Americans will swing largely away from Trump.

Maybe, but I think it's more likely that those middle voters give each party eight years unless something changes the balance of government otherwise.

Many if not most people believe in balanced government. If either party gets too much power, they get nervous.

Trump getting two Supreme Court picks weighs in favor of him getting voted out; but the House of Representatives taking a wholly obstructionist, aggressively anti-Trump approach instead of trying to work together with Republicans weighs against the Democrats.

If the Democrat House had been working to build Republican consensus instead of working to oust Trump, then voters might want to elect more Democrats into any or all branches of government.

However, because they clearly have the strategy of removing Republicans who obstruct them from working toward a monopoly, they are a force to be resisted.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Apr, 2020 11:29 am
@livinglava,
We will see... The Democrats have decided to make this election all about Trump.

Biden is the anti-Trump candidate. No one really cares about Biden, he doesn't stand for anything other than "normalcy". He doesn't really ignite any passion. I will vote for Biden, but it is Trump that is driving me to the polls.

This year, I think this is the correct strategy.

The Democrats are going to swing for the Senate. There are 8 Republican seats that are in range to swing from Red to Blue this year (versus 2 Democrat seats that could swing the other way). Using Trump to drive people to the polls is the way to accomplish this.

livinglava
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Apr, 2020 11:40 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

We will see... The Democrats have decided to make this election all about Trump.

Biden is the anti-Trump candidate. No one really cares about Biden, he doesn't stand for anything other than "normalcy". He doesn't really ignite any passion. I will vote for Biden, but it is Trump that is driving me to the polls.

This year, I think this is the correct strategy.

The Democrats are going to swing for the Senate. There are 8 Republican seats that are in range to swing from Red to Blue this year (versus 2 Democrat seats that could swing the other way). Using Trump to drive people to the polls is the way to accomplish this.

I might have voted for Bernie; in fact I might do so as a write-in; only because I would like to see socialism discussed democratically instead of occurring tactically without being put on the table for discussion.

I wouldn't vote for Biden precisely because Democrats just want someone to oust Trump. It's better lose an election and have a vision than to win an election by jettisoning any vision in favor of a purely incumbent-negative campaign.
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