Does polite conversation still have a place?

@livinglava,

Yes, polite conversation does have a place. You can find quite a bit of it on Able2know.

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Yes, polite conversation does have a place. You can find quite a bit of it on Able2know.

You say that, but generally you insult me by questioning my education, etc.

It's fine, even good to disagree with people when you disagree, but it is rude to bring their background into question instead of discussing the topic at hand.

Formal educational institutions have degenerated into prisms that channel everyone into specialty degree programs and thus render them 'non-experts' in everything that they didn't specialize in.

In reality, everyone is a generalist who is, if they are a free intellectual, reading/listening/studying things published by a variety of sources and thinking critically about them.

When you go around undermining people in discussions by accusing them of lacking the credentials and educational background to discuss a topic, it is rude and undermines discussion.

When you don't feel you have the expertise OR critical thinking skills to address something someone said in a post, you can just say that instead of attacking them by accusing them of not having the background/education/expertise to discuss a subject.

Take a math example, since you are very comfortable with math: let's say you were having a discussion about exponential growth and someone didn't understand something you were saying, but instead of saying that they didn't recognize and/or understand the math you were talking about, they started asserting that your educational background was insufficient for you to be talking about the subject at all. The reality is that you might know what you were talking about and/or have reasons to say what you say, but instead of reasoning with you, the person keeps jabbing at your background and insisting none of your reasons can possibly be right on any level because you lack credentials.

Do you not see how rude and discussion-killing that is? If you want to have polite discussion, you have to respect that people have a right to think and provide reasoning in discussion and have those respected and responded to as such, and not just ignored in order to focus on what kind of educational background they do or don't have.

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@livinglava,

Your original question was whether some conversations can be polite. Chocolate chip cookies have a place. That doesn't mean that every cookie has to be a chocolate chip cookie.

Some conversations are polite. Some conversations aren't polite. There is a wide variety of conversations one can have.

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@livinglava,

livinglava wrote:

Do you not see how rude and discussion-killing that is?

I disagree. Condescending, long winded answers that shows the poster is just as rude and discussion-killing isn't polite either...

1 Reply

@livinglava,

Yes there are some - it is definitely limited - and I think we are all guilty to a certain degree of not being polite and rude at times - we are all human.

When a conversation takes a turn for the worse - I unfortunately sometimes take the bait and continue, but have been trying to do this less. It is just someone trying to rile you up or maybe so obtuse on the subject it just is not worth the effort.

I have found more and more - I figuratively just walk away. If most of the individuals on the subject are not being rude, but there is one or two outliers - I simply ignore their "conversation" and focus on the others.

So short of it - yes there is polite - if you ignore the others - and you (as in each of us) try to pull back and take the bait and just move on - I think there would be more polite conversation if even the more reasonable individuals could ignore the others and not engage ... I know it is tough... and I certainly have done it --- but it is the better route.

1 Reply

@neptuneblue,

neptuneblue wrote:

livinglava wrote:
Do you not see how rude and discussion-killing that is?

I disagree. Condescending, long winded answers that shows the poster is just as rude and discussion-killing isn't polite either...

You may have an aesthetic aversion to what you perceive as a condescending tone, or what you consider 'long-winded,' but putting effort into using quality language and explaining things fully should not be dismissed as 'long-winded.'

And I can assure you that I am not condescending, even when I tell someone that I think they're wrong and/or rebuke them in some other way, I know that I am a sinner as much as anyone else is. You may not be able to understand that if you don't subscribe to Christian beliefs.

Nevertheless, I thank you for candidly explaining your critical POV in a polite way.

1 Reply

@Linkat,

Linkat wrote:

Yes there are some - it is definitely limited - and I think we are all guilty to a certain degree of not being polite and rude at times - we are all human.

Of course. I wouldn't claim to be above it, and I don't know why that would even be implicit in mentioning it.

If we kept silent about everything we were guilty of ourselves to avoid the appearance of hypocricy, nothing would ever be put on the table for discussion, would it?

Quote:

When a conversation takes a turn for the worse - I unfortunately sometimes take the bait and continue, but have been trying to do this less. It is just someone trying to rile you up or maybe so obtuse on the subject it just is not worth the effort.

I think it's a byproduct of boredom. You can sit around waiting for something better to do or just respond to something rude. But I agree with you that I reach the point with some posts/exchanges where it is no longer worth the effort to continue a back-and-forth that's pretty obviously not going to bear any positive fruit.

Quote:

So short of it - yes there is polite - if you ignore the others - and you (as in each of us) try to pull back and take the bait and just move on - I think there would be more polite conversation if even the more reasonable individuals could ignore the others and not engage ... I know it is tough... and I certainly have done it --- but it is the better route.

I think you're right, but there is a shortage of interesting/fruitful discussion and so I end up responding to things I probably shouldn't out of boredom.

Maybe there will be a renaissance of online discussion, with more forums opening up and/or new platforms that somehow make it easier to participate while also filtering out trolling.

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@livinglava,

livinglava wrote:

You may not be able to understand that if you don't subscribe to Christian beliefs.

Why wouldn't I understand the concept a "sinner" if I don't subscribe to a Christian belief? Is there a moratorium of vocabulary against any one is isn't Christian?

1 Reply

@neptuneblue,

neptuneblue wrote:

livinglava wrote:
You may not be able to understand that if you don't subscribe to Christian beliefs.

Why wouldn't I understand the concept a "sinner" if I don't subscribe to a Christian belief? Is there a moratorium of vocabulary against any one is isn't Christian?

I would say that if you understand and accept the concept of sin and that everyone is a sinner, you ARE Christian, whether or not you identify as such.

Well, there are other aspects to becoming Christian besides just grasping the notion that we are all sinners in need of salvation, but that's a huge obstacle for many people for many cultural reasons.

Anyway, my point was just that I don't condescend, even if you think my writing sounds 'condescending.' I know that I am created equal with all other people, regardless of what other differences might separate us in various ways.

1 Reply

@livinglava,

livinglava wrote:

Of course. I wouldn't claim to be above it, and I don't know why that would even be implicit in mentioning it.

[/quote]

sorry I was not directing anything at you - or at anyone in particular (if any I was calling myself out) - just the audience as a whole.

1 Reply

@livinglava,

livinglava wrote:

I think you're right, but there is a shortage of interesting/fruitful discussion and so I end up responding to things I probably shouldn't out of boredom.

I think we are all bored right now! Either that or ready to kill our spouses and other family members we have been cooped up with 24/7!

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@livinglava,

livinglava wrote:

Anyway, my point was just that I don't condescend, even if you think my writing sounds 'condescending.' I know that I am created equal with all other people, regardless of what other differences might separate us in various ways.

Just to add on this appearance of "condescending" or even "rudeness" etc. -- in writing it is hard often times to understand the underlying meaning/emotion. You cannot see a face so you can see the expression; you cannot hear the tone - so you can miss if someone is trying to be funny rather than rude, condescending or mean.

You can take a sentence saying - "You really STINK!" It could be funny - meaning someone just drew this incredible sketch and they say the opposite for example - or it can be really cruel if you could view their face and they have that disgusting look on it.

It is easy to mis-interpret someone's meaning and emotion in writing on here.

1 Reply

@Linkat,

Linkat wrote:

livinglava wrote:

Anyway, my point was just that I don't condescend, even if you think my writing sounds 'condescending.' I know that I am created equal with all other people, regardless of what other differences might separate us in various ways.

Just to add on this appearance of "condescending" or even "rudeness" etc. -- in writing it is hard often times to understand the underlying meaning/emotion. You cannot see a face so you can see the expression; you cannot hear the tone - so you can miss if someone is trying to be funny rather than rude, condescending or mean.

You can take a sentence saying - "You really STINK!" It could be funny - meaning someone just drew this incredible sketch and they say the opposite for example - or it can be really cruel if you could view their face and they have that disgusting look on it.

It is easy to mis-interpret someone's meaning and emotion in writing on here.

Well, I understand the aesthetic assumption that someone who writes in full sentences with correct grammar and uses a lot of vocabulary words without avoiding doing so out of fear that their reader will feel intimidated is 'condescending,' but I think it is just a negative attitude that should be ignored.

Trying to dumb down your writing out of fear that someone will react negatively to it is a form of pre-emptive self-bullying. It's like when you were the smart student and other kids called you 'nerd,' so you tried to make yourself seem less smart to avoid being called out and ridiculed for intelligence.

All these accusations of 'mansplaining' and 'condescending' are just a new form of nerd-phobia/hate/ridicule.

Granted it is rude when someone really does look down on you and condescend. I know this because of how certain posters undermine me in discussions by calling me stupid; but they are really arrogant and oriented toward socially degrading others as a poor substitute for explaining their POV, whereas me explaining my POV and not looking down other others when I explain it is the opposite of condescension.

The meaning of the word, 'condescension' is actually flawed in that it assumes that people all have the same understandings prior to any discussion of them. So if I explain something that you already know, it feels condescending, but how am I supposed to know that you already understand what I am explaining? If you say something that explains to me what you already understand, I have something to build on; but otherwise I have to start from scratch and explain what I understand in order to either check that we are already on the same page, or get you on the same page; either way we have to be on the same page to have a reason-based discussion.

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@Linkat,

ha ha the quote got lost

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Does polite conversation still have a place?

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