John, can you (help) sweep the floor?

@tanguatlay,

John, will you sweep the floor?

0 Replies

@tanguatlay,

The first one is better. Unless it's a massive floor with loads of people sweeping it, John won't be helping to sweep the floor, he'll be doing it on his own.

If you want to include the fact that John will be helping his mum you need to rephrase it. John, can you be a big help and sweep the floor for me.

Glenn is playing round with words. Strictly speaking can only means if something is possible whereas will definitely makes it about sweeping the floor, not just if he's able to sweep the floor.

However, language isn't logical, can you do something is very much part of British vernacular and is perfectly acceptable.

I had a teacher who would reply. "Can you?" whenever anyone said, "Can I go to the toilet?" He'd keep it up until they changed it to "May I go to the toilet?" He thought he was being funny, but we just thought he was a dickhead.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

Quote:

Glenn is playing round with words. Strictly speaking can only means if something is possible whereas will definitely makes it about sweeping the floor, not just if he's able to sweep the floor.

Funny. You call replacing the wrong word with the correct word "playing around with words."

The OP asked which is correct, not which is acceptable.

1 Reply

@Glennn,

Vernacular is correct. This is a question about spoken English, and most people who speak standard English use can, not will. The OP wants to talk like a native, not some character study from American English grammar.

You weren't helping, you were being smug. I gave a full and detailed account which explained things. You didn't explain anything.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

For some reason, you believe that I would sound unnatural if I said: Will you get that wrench for me?

Explain.

1 Reply

@Glennn,

For a start we call it a spanner. You start off with a basic error like that then expect me to explain the nuances of standard English.

I've got too much to do for that.

This isn't about you, and your need to be right regardless, it's about the OP. The OP has made it clear on more than one occasion that she wants to learn English, not American.

3 Replies

@izzythepush,

Many thanks, izzythepush, for your help. You are right. I prefer BE.

1 Reply

@tanguatlay,

Thanks for the confirmation, I appreciate it.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

Thanks for the confirmation, I appreciate it.

Welcome!

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

I've got too much to do for that.

But not enough to do to keep you from starting yet another arguement just for arguements sake.

Since we are thousands of miles apart, our language obviously has differences.

Me? I would say "will", not "can" as it's entrenched in me that "can" is asking "are you able", not if you're willing to do, and then will actually do.

To my ears, using "will" doesn't sound stilted, it just sounds correct.
"Can" sounds a little careless, and non specific.

I think I hear "Will you please...." and "Would you please" a lot more often, especially among adults than "Can" or "could". That is, if that person actually wants something accomplished.

In our increasingly wishy washy culture here, where the worst thing in the world is to cause even the slightest offense to absolutely anyone, people use "could quite a bit as a way avoiding even the hint of implying they would actually like to have something accomplished. Because that would actually be saying you'd like someone to do/not do something that is going to cause severe mental anguish, in the form of not doing exactly what you want every given second of the day.

If it's not that way in BE, cool. If the OP prefers BE, super cool.

However it's said in either land, I believe "will" or "would" is correct and is actually saying what is meant.

I guess that's all I have to say about that.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

First of all, when someone asks for the correct way to say something, I'll tell them what's correct. If you want to explain to them that the wrong word can be the right word as long as a lot of people use the wrong word, go ahead. I won't stop you. But when you decide to turn on me for telling him/her that the right word is the correct word, well then you've made it all about yourself and your need to be right, haven't you?

Also, in order to justify turning on me, you needed to assume that everyone should be aware that the OP has made it clear in the past that he/she wants to learn English, and not American. When did the OP make that clear? And when did it fall on me to research every thread of the OP in order to determine that?

Quote:

. . . and most people who speak standard English use can, not will.

Another assumption of yours necessary to justify turning on me.

1 Reply

@chai2,

Quote:

I think I hear "Will you please...." and "Would you please" a lot more often, especially among adults than "Can" or "could". That is, if that person actually wants something accomplished.

I thank you kindly for that.

0 Replies

@Glennn,

Glennn wrote:

Quote:
. . . and most people who speak standard English use can, not will.

Another assumption of yours necessary to justify turning on me.

That was the first thing that popped out to me in the original post Glenn.

Where's the data, research, evidence of that?

Ohhhhh.....I feel 2 definate thumbs down coming my way....no mystery from whom.

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@tanguatlay,

I'm going to collapse the thread, I've answered your question. Some Americans like to think they can tell everyone else what to do, and this is what happens when they don't get their way. They're like a couple of overgrown toddlers, muddying the waters and trying to trash a thread because they can't get their own way.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

Quote:

I'm going to collapse the thread . . .

Of course you are.

Quote:

I'm going to collapse the thread, I've answered your question.

Not to pile on you, but you should have used a period instead of a comma after the word "thread." I only mention it because we wouldn't want the OP to get the wrong idea concerning the proper use of periods and commas.

Quote:

Some Americans like to think they can tell everyone else what to do . . .

Is that your way of telling us that you're an American?

Quote:

they can't get their own way.

But we did get our own way.

1 Reply

@Glennn,

Glenn, I honestly wonder if Izzy isn't just jerking peoples chain by acting so blatently obtuse. Because it has to be an act.

Otherwise, how could someone so repeatedly do or say exactly what they complain about what someone else is doing?

There's so many examples even in this thread.

When called on it though, all he can do is apply even more of the same.

He makes things up on the fly, makes outright false accusations, but when asked to show proof, he "doesn't have the time"

He's still got a "hate on" for me, convinced, or just wishing, I said something hurtful about a family memeber of his. However, when directly confronted, demanding proof that I ever said anything close to what he fantasizes, all of a sudden he ghosts.

It's just the way he operates, and everyone knows it. So it's not even annoying anymore.

Tilting at windmills is all he does.

1 Reply

@chai2,

Quote:

He's still got a "hate on" for me, convinced, or just wishing, I said something hurtful about a family memeber of his.

A hate-on. Smile

I will pray for him (Don't worry. Nothing good will happen to him, as I don't believe in God).

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The funny thing is that both Izzy and Glenn are correct here but this has devolved dramatically.

Glennn wrote:

John, will you sweep the floor?

Yep, that is correct.

izzythepush wrote:

Strictly speaking can only means if something is possible whereas will definitely makes it about sweeping the floor, not just if he's able to sweep the floor.

However, language isn't logical, can you do something is very much part of British vernacular and is perfectly acceptable.

Also completely correct, also in the US or at least in my part. I'm certain I've asked my kids if they "can clean up the kitchen" or if they "can feed the dog." As Izzy pointed out, not strictly correct, but very common vernacular.

izzythepush wrote:

I had a teacher who would reply. "Can you?" whenever anyone said, "Can I go to the toilet?" He'd keep it up until they changed it to "May I go to the toilet?" He thought he was being funny, but we just thought he was a dickhead.

Yep, had a teacher like that too. I didn't know the word "dickhead" at the time, but it would have been appropriate.

2 Replies

@engineer,

Quote:

The funny thing is that both Izzy and Glenn are correct

Sure. However, he characterized my contribution as playing with words rather than what I actually did, which was to offer the OP the correct word.

I don't mind that he explained that people often use the word "can" instead of "will." But he called me smug for offering the correct word. In his mind, everyone is supposed to know that the OP has made it clear in the past that he/she wants to learn English, and not American. And the reason he made that faulty assumption is because that was the only way to paint my short contribution as an offense against the OP, which is ridiculous.

You've decided to overlook the fact that he is the one who initiated the condescending, insulting crap. That means that you are little more than a mindless bottom feeder in this thread.

0 Replies

John, can you (help) sweep the floor?

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