Would the US Military obey Trump orders to commit war crimes?

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Going to be interesting to perhaps find out if our military would obey orders from Trump to commit clear and no question about it war crimes under international laws.

Are we and our military in other word any better then the 1930s German military or not?

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[+4] - tsarstepan - 01/06/2020[quote="BillRM"] Going to be interesting to perhaps find out if our military would obey orders from Trump to commit clear and no question about it war crimes under international...
[+3] - BillRM - 01/06/2020[quote="izzythepush"] They just did. [/quote] Sorry while the assassination an also carrying the assassination out on another nation soil at that was stupid hell it was damn stupid...
[+3] - farmerman - 01/07/2020The "drama queen " comment wasnt about bombing although Im sure you have as little knowledge about SAC procedures as you do about Sources and controls of HF . This is an opinion...

@BillRM,

Quote:

Are we and our military in other word any better then the 1930s German military or not?

I'd like to think that our forces wouldn't commit the sorts of atrocities that characterized the worst behavior of the Nazis. But I could see some drone pilot, safely operating from within the USA, having no second thoughts about demolishing culturally significant sites.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Going to be interesting to perhaps find out if our military would obey orders from Trump to commit clear and no question about it war crimes under international laws.

We can certainly hope they don't follow through with these (potentially) illegal order that would be war crimes. It is legal to refuse orders from a commanding officer when they are obviously illegal.

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@BillRM,

They just did.

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An awful lot of hang wringing over a tweet. I guess there isn't much to discuss in the news.

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The crowds in Tehran today were the largest since the death of Khomenei. If Trump was hoping the murder would mobilise anti government sentiment he's sorely mistaken. The crowd are really angry too, hell bent on revenge. This won't go away.

Carter's biggest mistake regarding Iran was that a country would not act against its own interests. It did, constantly, and this time the population are prepared to put up with a lot of **** to resist the imperialists.

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

They just did.

Sorry while the assassination an also carrying the assassination out on another nation soil at that was stupid hell it was damn stupid however it was not a clear war crime. The man was leading a low level secret ongoing arm conflict with US forces for a prolong period.

Blowing up nonmilitary cultural centers however would be a clear no question about it war crime.

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@BillRM,

Yes, group think and the chain of command are powerful things and our military (and everyone else's) would commit war crimes if the chain of command sanctioned it. We are not very far away from torturing prisoners after finding friendly psychologists who said it was fine. We just pardoned war criminals who were credibly accused of killing civilians in Iraq. If the US is committed to a course of action that most would consider a war crime, it is unrealistic and unfair to expect a principled service person to be able to stop it.

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@engineer,

engineer wrote:

Yes, group think and the chain of command are powerful things and our military (and everyone else's) would commit war crimes if the chain of command sanctioned it. We are not very far away from torturing prisoners after finding friendly psychologists who said it was fine. We just pardoned war criminals who were credibly accused of killing civilians in Iraq. If the US is committed to a course of action that most would consider a war crime, it is unrealistic and unfair to expect a principled service person to be able to stop it.

The US arm forces do not have a bad record of it members, even low level people taking steps on their own to stop war crimes.

The one example that come to my mind is during the Vietnam war of the helicopter pilot and his gunner who placed his ship between US soldiers and a group of Vietnamese villagers who was being killed in an ongoing massacre an threaten to open fire on his own country men and fellow soldiers to stop the killings.

Then take note even in the very tight seals outfits war crimes are being reported to the chain of command by fellow seals against other seals.

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@BillRM,

Both of those examples are after the fact. The crimes still happened. If an order comes down from the chain of command to destroy historical sites, it is going to happen. I don't say that as someone who is anti-military (being ex-military myself) but as someone who is realistic. We have a pardoned seal going around the country doing press interviews and starting a lifestyle brand. I'm not saying the US is worse that anyone else just that if the command comes down, it will be carried out.

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@engineer,

This article is more about Democrats, but it is useful for the conclusion that most (but not all) voters will go with their elected leaders rather than their issue positions. If Republican thought leaders support war crimes, the population will pretty much fall in line. You can find plenty of people who think water boarding is fine.

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@engineer,

engineer wrote:

Both of those examples are after the fact. The crimes still happened. If an order comes down from the chain of command to destroy historical sites, it is going to happen. I don't say that as someone who is anti-military (being ex-military myself) but as someone who is realistic. We have a pardoned seal going around the country doing press interviews and starting a lifestyle brand. I'm not saying the US is worse that anyone else just that if the command comes down, it will be carried out.

If so then the people who order actions that are clearly war crimes an those who carry out the orders should be punished even after the fact. Hell even long after the facts if need be.

I wonder if we still have the ropes used on both the Nazis and the Japanese war criminals after WW2.

In any case we spend as must as the rest of the world together on our military an we have a right to expect that even with a low level conman president they had an obligation both legally and morally to up hold our laws an our morals an not to go rogue.

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@BillRM,

True, but with a "compassionate conservative" President we tortured people and no one has gone to jail for that even after eight years with a Democratic President. I wish it were otherwise, but if the order comes down, it will be carried out.

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@BillRM,

That's not how every one sees it.

The main refrain at the funeral was of getting America out of the Middle East. Now, that's not likely to happen but it's a rather blunt single purpose statement all the same.

What we don't know is what affect this is having on all the Sunni Jihadis throughout the region. They've been fighting Iranian backed militias and the Iranian military in Syria and Iraq. Will it be business as normal or will they think sod it, let's have a go at infidels. It was American troops landing in Saudi Arabia that sent Bin Laden off the deep end and a load more have just been sent to Kuwait. That's going to piss a lot of people off. This **** could go all sorts of ways.

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@engineer,

engineer wrote:

This article is more about Democrats, but it is useful for the conclusion that most (but not all) voters will go with their elected leaders rather than their issue positions. If Republican thought leaders support war crimes, the population will pretty much fall in line. You can find plenty of people who think water boarding is fine.

My my you have a very low opinion of the american public an if you are correct then we deserve to forget the great experiment in self government set up by our founders.

True my faith in our system had been greatly reduce in the last three years or so but I am not ready yet to support a search for an american Putin to take over.

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BillRM wrote:

Going to be interesting to perhaps find out if our military would obey orders from Trump to commit clear and no question about it war crimes under international laws.

Note that destroying something that is culturally important to Iran does not necessarily mean an attack on a world heritage site. A lot of people around the world are jumping to conclusions that might be warranted, but might be entirely off base.

That said, I don't think very many people realize just how horrific it is going to be when Iran's Uranium Conversion Facility is bombed and massive clouds of hydrofluoric acid vapor go rolling across the Iranian countryside.

If the wind is blowing in the direction of Isfahan at the time, the number of fatalities is going to be staggering.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_fluoride
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrofluoric_acid
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrofluoric_acid_burn

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@hightor,

hightor wrote:

I'd like to think that our forces wouldn't commit the sorts of atrocities that characterized the worst behavior of the Nazis. But I could see some drone pilot, safely operating from within the USA, having no second thoughts about demolishing culturally significant sites.

Drones carry relatively light weapons. A serious attack on Iran is likely to involve multiple waves of heavy bombers flying out of our airbases in the UK and in Diego Garcia.

If you look at the position of both airbases on a globe you can see that both bases are well positioned for heavy bombers to pummel Iran from two directions at once.

While our military planners will have many weapon loads to choose from, it makes sense to me for us to do most of the bombing with cruise missiles, although a few sites will probably require stealth bombers to drop those 30,000-pound super bunker busters. If we do most of the bombing with cruise missiles that will keep most of our pilots safely out of Iranian airspace, and that's a big plus for me. Plus the need to build a bunch more cruise missiles will help the economy.

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@oralloy,

beneficiation by HF is no longer a "liquidus" process. All UF6 is made worldwide by anhydrous HF, which is totlly recycleable and is therefore captured. HF leaks can occur but the discharges are kept within a High Mg peroxide " permeable environment".
ANYWAY, we get more fugitive HF if living near a plastics plant where they make PTFE ,Teflon or near any refinery where they do alkylation. You probably live nearer an HF emission source more common than making UF6.
Stop trying to be a drama queen.

We can sense emissions by several other key isotopes hundreds and often thousands of miles downstream and can tell what theyre doing .

Its not alchemy.

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@oralloy,

Quote:

Drones carry relatively light weapons. A serious attack on Iran is likely to involve multiple waves of heavy bombers flying out of our airbases in the UK and in Diego Garcia.

Bombs Away with Orallay.
The real world called, they want you to go back and play your Star War Games

1 Reply

@farmerman,

You know, when you don't have anything intelligent to say, you do have the option of just keeping your mouth shut.

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