13
   

Plant Based "meat" is this healthy?

 
 
livinglava
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 16 Nov, 2019 05:02 pm
@Banana Breath,
Banana Breath wrote:

Again, your ignorance is getting in the way. That is not meant as an insult, and if you take 3 seconds to look up the definition of "ignorance" you'll find it describes a lack of knowledge in a particular area, not stupidity.

You're right to point out this subtly in the meaning of 'ignorance,' because many people indeed assume it to be synonymous with 'stupid.'

Quote:
This is a photo of the "grasslands" of Inner Mongolia that have been under drought conditions for most of the past 30+ years.

I invite you to move to this location and try to sustain yourself on vegetables. That will be hard to do under the persistent drought conditions. However there are tufts of grass that do manage to grow. I invite you to eat the tufts of grass, if you wish. The alternative, as practiced by the locals, is to raise sheep which are indeed able to eat the tufts of grass and turn them into meat. Mutton and sheep milk are the primary foodstuffs of the Mongolian people.

As I said, there is a case to make for milk. Meat is something that is borne out of necessity/hunger, as you imply here. I think this is why the Old Testament talks in terms of animal sacrifice, i.e. because if you can adequately nourish your family without slaughtering your flock, you do that; but when humans are dying of starvation, you slaughter animals for meat before you would slaughter and butcher humans for theirs.

Quote:
I don't raise this randomly, I have traveled to Inner Mongolia and have seen this first hand and have eaten with the Inner Mongolian peasants. Since you fairly obviously haven't, you assume that they can simply order vegetable dishes fully prepared and delivered by Uber from their local Whole Foods. But no, there's no Uber there, nor Whole Foods.
http://www.itourbeijing.com/admin/letter/upfile/129126339005000000.jpg

I wasn't talking about people who aren't connected to economic food systems. The fact is that if you are growing corn, soy, and wheat to feed to animals for slaughter, you can use those grains for human consumption more efficiently and feed more people with less land/water/fertilizer.

Quote:
There are thousands of other examples that you are equally ignorant of, including the fact that YOU DON'T EAT CORN STALKS. However cows do. The chopped up cobs and stalks of corn plants would otherwise go to waste, but are good food for cows that can digest these and turn them into edible food. Let me know when you figure out how YOU can eat these and turn them directly into energy. Cows figured that out many millennia ago. It's called "Corn Silage" Look it up.

Personally, I have problems with the ethics of slaughter, whether it is humans or animals; so I admit that causes me to be biased; but I'm sure that if you put effort into it, you could find a way to ferment or otherwise digest silage for use as a food product for humans without using and slaughtering cows or any other animals with brains that sense, perceive, and feel fear and pain just as you or I would.

Of course the current trend toward plant-based foods is more about climate sustainability than animal-ethics, so you may be able to make a case that using cows to process silage has a smaller carbon footprint than using machines and human labor. There is a similar argument to be made for hunting, which harvests meat from forests instead of land that has been cleared to use as pasture.
0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 16 Nov, 2019 05:10 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

That what you say may be true of me,I really dont have the necessary patience to be more avuncular with folks who havent spent time learning about what they opine. However, I think that waiting until you have the same understanding available to farmers ad stock breeders then perhaps you should follow your closing admonition.

I find that, on the internet, folks rarely admit error and ,to maintain "big face", they try to keep an argument going with minor changes of their original point in subsequent posts so that by 4 pages later, their comments and statements have changed over 180 degrees without anything in error admitted .

That sounds right. If you point out some specific error I've made in a way that I can review your reasons and/or data that proves me wrong, I will admit when I am convinced, and I am not biased against being convinced of something I don't already agree with.

However, when animals are getting raised for meat by feeding them corn, soy, and wheat that could be fed to humans; that just seems obviously wasteful.

To know exactly how wasteful it is, you'd have to calculate how many pounds of soy, corn, and wheat are fed to cows per pound of meat harvested; not to mention how much water is used to raise the animal, clean its pen, clean the slaughterhouse, clean the butcher shop, etc. etc.

If you set up a meatless-meat factory on a farm that grows the soy/wheat that the meatless-meat is made from, it would have a much smaller carbon/land footprint than having a slaughterhouse and butcher shop on the same land where animals are being raised for slaughter.

Quote:
The net is no place for intelligent debate really. We already have too many guys who are experts on so many things. Im two inches wide but a mild deep. Theres only about 3 or 4 things Ill argue about and farming happens to be one.

Internet discussion is disappointing compared with what we expected when it started. Public discourse, nevertheless, remains the ideal forum to support liberty and democracy. The fact that it is constantly under attack by all sorts of unconstructive, negative distraction is no reason to give up on it, just as the inefficiencies of democracy and liberty are no reason to give into authoritarianism/fascism/socialism.

Honest people are able to disagree in a way that is constructive and raises each others' awareness of things they didn't know before the discussion. Such disagreement is better than avoiding discussions because you're not an expert in some aspect of the topic you're discussing.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Nov, 2019 05:57 pm
@livinglava,
livinglava wrote:
Tastes are subjective. They change as your diet changes.

My diet is not going to change. I am going to keep eating meat.


livinglava wrote:
That's not a viable idea and you know it.

No. It isn't a good idea.

Humans are capable of slicing plant genes into our DNA and producing chlorophyll in our skin if we wanted to do so.


livinglava wrote:
You are just implying that some waste is inevitable so it is no worse to feed plants to animals in order to eat the animals than it is to eat the plants directly.

Waste is not inevitable. It is merely desirable.


livinglava wrote:
When you fail to exercise the liberty to take social responsibility, your freedom becomes someone else's burden.

I doubt it. But if so, that's their problem.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 16 Nov, 2019 07:43 pm
@oralloy,
typo: "slicing" was supposed to be "splicing"
Sturgis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Nov, 2019 07:45 pm
@oralloy,
It may have been a typo but by using the word slicing, it conveyed the meaning quite vividly.
0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 16 Nov, 2019 08:13 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

My diet is not going to change. I am going to keep eating meat.

Maybe some cannibals' diet also won't change and they are going to keep eating you regardless of whatever reasons you might give them to do otherwise.

Quote:

No. It isn't a good idea.

Humans are capable of slicing plant genes into our DNA and producing chlorophyll in our skin if we wanted to do so.

Even if it were possible, we couldn't photosynthesize fast enough to power our metabolism. There's a reason plants/producers stay still and animals move.

Quote:

Waste is not inevitable. It is merely desirable.

Waste is a lottery that culminates in death. People who like waste never think that they will end up being the ones who bear the scarcity that results from waste, but what entitles them to shift the burden away from themselves if they reject the responsibility to attempt reform/conservation?


Quote:
livinglava wrote:
When you fail to exercise the liberty to take social responsibility, your freedom becomes someone else's burden.

I doubt it. But if so, that's their problem.

It is indeed their problem, but because you are the cause of the problem, it makes you liable.

Likewise, if someone else's free actions caused burden to you, you would consider them liable, I assume.

0 Replies
 
Banana Breath
 
  2  
Reply Sun 17 Nov, 2019 03:17 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
We raise market sheep and our growth records are (while not full organic) are as chemical free as can be certified. Butchers who buy our products Kosher/Halal/ as well as Standard cuts.
For our own use, we buy our chickens from a chem free (animal source free as well) who grows poultry on a real free range facility and the folks there have stock dogs to protect the flocks from coyote and fox. They don't confine the chickens and the birds are served chem/GMO free an the meat has a CHICKEN FLAVOR (unlike most Tyson or Del Marva birds that are mostly confined grown .

We've been in this for almost 30 years and we started as standard multi purpose sheep producers and gradually changed over to support a much more sophisticated and demanding MEAT market.(A lot of our market is still with the Corriedale wool and Alpaca cloths) If someone goes to a custom cut butcher for lamb, they usually are wise enough to know the difference in product value. In actuality, were gradually going back to the way meat was produced before the ages of refrigeration, except now we have refrigeration and can best utilize what "aging" can do for meat flavor and texture.


It all sounds great. It's a shame that the current younger generation seems so clueless as to what real food is. It's not just meat; they're shunning milk for instance and drinking "almond milk" instead thinking that it's somehow healthier for them; but it's garbage too, it's just water, sweeteners, thickening agents, and often only 2% almonds.
https://www.rebootwithjoe.com/guess-how-much-almond-is-in-your-almond-milk/
And bread... This gluten-phobia thing is unbelievable. People don't seem to care what's in their fake bread as long as it isn't wheat.

There were of course many fake foods when we older folks were young, Tang, Cyclamate sweeteners, Non dairy creamer, McDonalds "milkshakes", Bac-os... But I don't think anyone back then had the illusion that these were genuinely good for you and would "save the planet."
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-iuRlJboeCHA/TYqo9rmrLbI/AAAAAAAABRs/W9d7ZbSp3y8/s320/BACOS.jpg
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-f999bc325afbbae01e9cbff4f8a6ae79
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Nov, 2019 03:35 pm
@Banana Breath,
I lo-ooved Tang!!
I would always think “This is what astronauts drink!”
0 Replies
 
Sturgis
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Nov, 2019 03:46 pm
I miss cyclamates. The liquid form was so beautiful shimmering away in that bottle on the dining room table. Nobody could blame me for tilting it to my open mouth and allowing several drops to caress my tongue, throat and innards. Sadly, the U.S. Government saw fit to ban them. Naturally the only way to cope was by twisting the tops off several bottles of gin over the next number of years.

(I also had a temporary addiction to Bac-os)
0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 17 Nov, 2019 05:34 pm
@Banana Breath,
Banana Breath wrote:
It all sounds great. It's a shame that the current younger generation seems so clueless as to what real food is. It's not just meat; they're shunning milk for instance and drinking "almond milk" instead thinking that it's somehow healthier for them; but it's garbage too, it's just water, sweeteners, thickening agents, and often only 2% almonds.

That's what I thought too, but then I looked at the nutritional information and saw that it has the same amount of calcium and protein as cow milk. It might have less cholesterol and vitamin D, but I'm not sure it's even necessary to get cholesterol that your body doesn't make on its own, though it might be.

You could make a case for cholesterol and vitamin D in cow milk making it better, but of course the vitamin D is added as a supplement anyway, so it is the same to add it to almond milk or soy milk or any other milk that's not derived from animals.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Nov, 2019 11:41 pm
@Banana Breath,
we seem to learn things "virally" only after we go through pendulum swings of how our knowledge of foods go through swings of "latest best scientific thinking".
My wife reads "dr Oz' and sees how he and his sidekick xtoll virtues of some new vegetable or fruit only to later find that hes got some interests in several producers.

I recall the "Tang" age when biologists first discovered how the great apes had lost the ability to synthesize Vitamin C, then everything had Vit C added cause "It cant hoit".

Now its sugar thats the devils food, and beyond that, the KIND of sugar and its ability to be rapidly absorbed and jacking up glucose levels.

The way I look at it, food is my vitamin and mineral sources. When the ingredients list on the label takes up a paragraph or two , we try to avoid eating that.
Im a seafood lover and if LL is selectively worried about processed foods, read a label of frozen shrimp , clams, or fresh scallops and crabmeat, and many "previously frozen" fish. They add a healthy load of hexametaphosphate salts (The kind of **** we use in detergents) and they do it by letting the seafood take it up as a solution through osmosis.(they "brine" their seafood with Hexametaphosphate solution in order to maintain weights)
Usually only restaurants get the "dry packed" versions of the seafoods which are usually sold as "dayboat" or "flash frozen" . It gotten so that for us to at dry packed scallops we have to search pretty far. (There used to be two great fresh seafood stores and market stands in Lancaster), however now, if we want really fresh unscrewed with scallops (the kind that brown when you quick sear em), we have to travel down into the Eastern shore. We started a multi family campaign fresh seafood campaign. We would ask the supermarket chains like Giant and Wegmans for dry packed scallops. When we asked to see the bag they were shipped in, it clearly said it contained Hexa... solution to"retain moisture". We complained and we did get some relief at Wegmans and Giant , they started selling Flash Frozen scallops (thats as good as we got, caus they still sell the Hexa... doctored ones in the seafood case)


Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Nov, 2019 10:40 am
@farmerman,
Thanks farmer that is good to know. I was familiar with the scallops as I like them to brown as you say. I typically try to go to fish markets I have gotten to know. One place is close to where we used to live so I know I tend to go there on my way home as it is a good half hour.

They sell dry scallops. I knew to ask those. But I didn't know the details of what the difference really was - I thought it was something else (more water or whatever to increase its weight when buying) didn't know it was actual chemicals. I didn't know it was an actual chemical. Now if I happen to get these previously frozen seafood I will know what to ask.
0 Replies
 
 

 
Copyright © 2019 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 12/12/2019 at 02:55:22