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Animals Do Not Survive Physical Death

 
 
harpazo
 
Reply Tue 29 Oct, 2019 07:09 pm
Just like humans, animals were affected by the curse of sin but they are not sinners. Jesus did not die to save animals. Animals do not have a soul. Only humans have a soul that survives physical death. Your thoughts?
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Tue 29 Oct, 2019 07:13 pm
I believe that humans and all animal and plant life face the same ultimate fate.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Oct, 2019 07:27 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

I believe that humans and all animal and plant life face the same ultimate fate.


And rocks too. Don't forget rocks.
harpazo
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 29 Oct, 2019 08:02 pm
@edgarblythe,
What if you're wrong? If we came from monkeys, who created the monkeys? A big explosion in space cannot form life. Let's say it was the big bang. What caused the big bang? Let us say x caused the big bang. What caused x?
harpazo
 
  0  
Reply Tue 29 Oct, 2019 08:04 pm
@maxdancona,
I'll let you and the Flintstones figure that out.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  3  
Reply Tue 29 Oct, 2019 09:34 pm
@harpazo,
You appear to be unfamiliar with what science actually says on the topic. Also, I don't recall reading about we have souls in theBible.
harpazo
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 29 Oct, 2019 09:37 pm
@edgarblythe,
1. Who cares what science has to say?

2. The Bible talks about an afterlife. Afterlife and souls go together. The body goes to the grave or is cremated.
Sturgis
 
  2  
Reply Tue 29 Oct, 2019 10:01 pm
Shows how little you truly know. All dogs go to heaven.

Animals have genuine souls as is shown again and again by how loving and forgiving they are to humans.
0 Replies
 
Sturgis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Oct, 2019 10:06 pm
@harpazo,
Quote:
The body goes to the grave of is cremated.


Not always.
Lenin can be found looking as sexy and handsome as when he was alive.
Others have been preserved in various ways.
Folks who meet their end in the wild are often consumed by critters of all types. Right on through the devouring of their bones. No grave, no cremains.
edgarblythe
 
  3  
Reply Tue 29 Oct, 2019 10:06 pm
the Bible says. “The dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it” (Ecclesiastes 12:7, NIV). At the resurrection, God reunites the body and His life-giving spirit—and the person lives again.

https://www.bibleinfo.com/en/questions/what-does-bible-say-about-death
harpazo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Oct, 2019 11:02 pm
@Sturgis,
Very true, sir. However, the God of Scripture can do anything. What is impossible for God who spoke and the world and everything that is nature-related was made? Humans cannot resurrect the dead. God can, has in the past and will do so again on resurrection day. Cremated or buried, or eaten by animals or whatever, it makes no difference to such a powerful being. What is death to God?
0 Replies
 
harpazo
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 29 Oct, 2019 11:03 pm
@edgarblythe,
Yes. God is do anything. What is death to God? The Bible calls death SLEEPING for believers.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Wed 30 Oct, 2019 05:46 am
@harpazo,
harpazo wrote:

1. Who cares what science has to say?


I do.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  3  
Reply Wed 30 Oct, 2019 06:47 am
@harpazo,
But it does not bestow an eternal soul, bequeathed at birth. I don't know why I bother making a point to someone who really doesn't seem to want to know anything of a substantial nature.
0 Replies
 
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Oct, 2019 07:26 am
@harpazo,
harpazo wrote:

What caused x?


Who gives a frack? Worrying about pointless, chaotic crap is... by definition pointless.
0 Replies
 
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Oct, 2019 07:27 am
@harpazo,
harpazo wrote:

1. Who cares what science has to say?

Medical doctors. Astrophysicists. A few million variations in between and beyond.
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Oct, 2019 12:48 pm
@tsarstepan,
tsarstepan wrote:

harpazo wrote:

1. Who cares what science has to say?

Medical doctors. Astrophysicists. A few million variations in between and beyond.


Don't forget Asian chicks with big bootys.

They care a lot about science.
0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Nov, 2019 08:30 pm
@harpazo,
harpazo wrote:

Just like humans, animals were affected by the curse of sin but they are not sinners. Jesus did not die to save animals. Animals do not have a soul. Only humans have a soul that survives physical death. Your thoughts?

This is a controversial subject, but interesting to speculate about.

A good starting point, imo, is to note the similarity between more emotional human behavior and that of animals. When we say that someone is behaving 'like an animal,' it means they have lost conscious/intentional control and have given in to reacting to their emotions/desires.

I don't think that animals are completely devoid of reflective consciousness and intent, but I think even the most thoughtful and foresighted animals have very simple and fleeting thoughts compared with even the most animalistic humans.

To the extent that animals can't choose to sin, they aren't accountable for it. If an attack dog was used as part of Jesus' crucifixion, He could include forgiveness of the dog when He said, "forgive them they know not what they do," except that would imply that the dog has the capacity to know what it's doing, but it really doesn't; i.e. because it is just behaving instinctually and following commands/training.

According to philosophies of reincarnation, animals do have souls, which get reincarnated, and humans may well get reincarnated as animals if doing so helps them to fulfill certain karmas they have built up during their human lives, such as sexual lust, desire for killing, etc. By being reborn as an animal, humans could get through such karmas without bringing further karma upon themselves; i.e. they are only reaping what they have sowed by choices they made as sentient/conscious/intentional humans. As animals have only instincts/reflexes, they can only go through their fates without exercising conscious/intentional choice in their actions.

You could say that animals have souls that experience the animal's senses, desires, pain, etc. like a passenger in a vehicle without much if any control over the vehicle, whereas humans develop more control and thus responsibility for our actions.

Also, if you think in terms of reincarnation, then the negative experiences of this world are hell, in spiritual terms. So by being reborn into life after life of suffering, we are going through hell and 'paying our karma.' In terms of 'purgatory,' it may all be part of a spiritual process of purging sin by experiencing sin's negative consequences in various ways until we gain the awareness that motivates us to give up the sin and seek redemption.

From that perspective, animals could be vehicles for the soul in one of two ways: 1) they are opportunities for souls to reincarnate from a human existence into an animal body where we can go through karmas and suffering without the ability to sin further. 2) they are souls that have not yet live as humans, who are going through processes of familiarization with the various experiences different kinds of bodies are prone to having; sort of the way the fetus goes through different stages in the womb that resemble different species.

Either way, souls inhabiting an animal or other non-human body could later receive a human birth in order to have the ability to choose salvation and redemption over sin.

Some Christians don't believe in purgatory at all; while some may believe it cannot exist through reincarnation in this world. I, personally, can't see any reason the materialities of this world and the suffering they bring can't be thought of as states of purgatory. Like Dante's inferno, there can be various levels of Hell, and we can variously ascend and descend as part of the suffering/purge.

Eventually, I'd like to think that all souls can see the light and become saved to gradually ascend to Heaven with God, but some people will disagree and say that there is eternal damnation that can't be overcome if one isn't already saved before dying. If there is reincarnation, however, then why wouldn't the possibility be there to accept salvation in each subsequent life? Of course people can keep forgoing it and suffering on and on, but they could also accept it and begin the long process of salvation and ascent to God.
harpazo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Nov, 2019 10:38 pm
@livinglava,
Our OPINION is useless. God's opinion as penned in Scripture is what matters the most.
livinglava
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Nov, 2019 06:05 am
@harpazo,
harpazo wrote:

Our OPINION is useless. God's opinion as penned in Scripture is what matters the most.

There are many different scriptures and they all approach the ultimate truth in different ways.

I am used to people telling me my thoughts that I posted above are nonsensical opinion, but my analysis comes from reconciling the notion that the hereafter is purely spiritual with the faulty notion that material existence is radically non-spiritual.

The reality about material existence is that we experience it as material and thus different from a purely spiritual experience like a dream because doing so is part of how we dream it.

Causality is very accurate within the patterns of the physical universe, hence the clock-like mechanics of sin/karma and its effects and broader consequences. Nevertheless there are spiritual dynamics that allow us to experience peace in the midst of material turbulence, happiness during material suffering, forgiveness/salvation despite material sin.
In short, there is spiritual experience occurring in tandem with the experience of material/physical patterns of cause and effect.

When you read scripture, whether it is the Bible or Quran or Bhagavad Gita or any other text, remember that they are all written by human writers inspired with Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit is the way God communicates with us and animates us directly, and those who are true to God are able to understand the Truth better than those whose minds are more beholden to other interests, but ultimately no one can understand the scriptures/texts penned by prophets and saints except by experiential verification together with their own conscience, which must decipher what it believes is true or not based on its faith to Holy Spirit.
 

 
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