7
   

How a Witch Hunt Works

 
 
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Thu 30 Jan, 2020 09:14 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I still think you are still confused about what a fact is. You are spouting one-sided political ideology and calling it "facts". A fact needs to be testable in a independent way, and falsifiable (you should be able to tell me what evidence would get you to admit your fact is "false").

You are spouting the most simplistic political dogma and calling it facts. And you are ignoring any evidence that doesn't fit your narrow ideological narrative.



Here are the things you are calling "facts"...

- Many of the unjust tactics that are used in witch hunts, are also being used against Mr. Trump. That is why people are calling it a witch hunt.

- When Democrats abuse the law to harm people who disagree with them, that's a witch hunt.

- [Comparing the impeachment to a witch hunt] is a perfectly defensible comparison.

- Nixon did nothing wrong.

- You are more intelligent than Farmerman.

These aren't facts, they are talking points. They are silly ones at that, they are the most simplistic partisan blather that don't even get to the real issues. If you want to argue any of these are actual facts, then apply the falsification principle....

If Oralloy can argue a real fact, we will all note that he wrote:
I will accept that my claimed fact that _______ has been disproven if you provide evidence that _______.


Anything I claim to be a fact, I can do exactly this.



oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 30 Jan, 2020 09:16 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
I still think you are still confused about what a fact is.

A fact is something that is true.


maxdancona wrote:
You are spouting one-sided political ideology and calling it "facts".

Conservatism and reality go hand in hand.


maxdancona wrote:
A fact needs to be testable in a independent way, and falsifiable (you should be able to tell me what evidence would get you to admit your fact is "false").

"Proof that something is untrue" would go a long way towards that.


maxdancona wrote:
You are spouting the most simplistic political dogma and calling it facts.

Again, conservatism and reality go hand in hand.


maxdancona wrote:
And you are ignoring any evidence that doesn't fit your narrow ideological narrative.

No such evidence exists.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jan, 2020 09:17 pm
What you guys are giving us is not facts. It is simplistic, narrow, partisan blather.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jan, 2020 09:19 pm
@oralloy,
Most of what you claim to be "fact" is actually a simplistic, narrow, ideological opinion.

I can't disprove an opinion. That doesn't make it a fact.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 30 Jan, 2020 09:23 pm
@maxdancona,
That is incorrect. My posts are factual and true.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 30 Jan, 2020 09:24 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
Here are the things you are calling "facts"...

- Many of the unjust tactics that are used in witch hunts, are also being used against Mr. Trump. That is why people are calling it a witch hunt.

- When Democrats abuse the law to harm people who disagree with them, that's a witch hunt.

- [Comparing the impeachment to a witch hunt] is a perfectly defensible comparison.

- Nixon did nothing wrong.

- You are more intelligent than Farmerman.

Yes.


maxdancona wrote:
These aren't facts, they are talking points. They are silly ones at that, they are the most simplistic partisan blather that don't even get to the real issues.

That is incorrect. Everything that I said is true.


maxdancona wrote:
If you want to argue any of these are actual facts, then apply the falsification principle....

If Oralloy can argue a real fact, we will all note that he wrote:
I will accept that my claimed fact that _______ has been disproven if you provide evidence that _______.

You are more than welcome to provide any evidence that anything that I said is untrue.

If you try, it could actually lead to an interesting conversation.


maxdancona wrote:
Anything I claim to be a fact, I can do exactly this.

As I recall, you never accepted reality when I proved that you were wrong about Israel's repeated peace offers to the Palestinians.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 30 Jan, 2020 09:26 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
What you guys are giving us is not facts. It is simplistic, narrow, partisan blather.

That is incorrect. What we are saying is true. Progressives don't like what we have to say, but it is still the truth.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jan, 2020 09:28 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

That is incorrect. My posts are factual and true.


Of course they are.... Wink

I don't know what your IQ actually is.

But, I do think you have an intellectual inability to question yourself, to admit any doubt, or to change your mind when you are wrong.

This statement shows an intellectual failure. I wish that we could discuss some of the more interesting, more intelligent issues being raised in this trial... they aren't simple. When the answer is "conservative right, democrats bad"... come on. I appeal to your intelligence to see how silly this stance is.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Thu 30 Jan, 2020 09:30 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
What we are saying is true. Progressives don't like what we have to say, but it is still the truth.


This is not an intelligent argument. It is a silly argument.

I was making arguments like this in middle-school.


maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jan, 2020 09:36 pm
This is not just for Oralloy this is a general plea to anyone.

We need an intelligent conservative here on Able2know. I list below what I mean by intelligent. I meet these criteria, but I don't consider myself a conservative. Of course these criteria apply to any other political persuasion (but the specific need here is an intelligent conservative).

1) Able to distinguish between fact and opinion, and to admit when they are expressing opinions.

2) Willing to back claims of fact with real evidence and to provide a falsifiability condition.

3) Able to admit when the other side has a valid point, and to accept facts that support the other side (once these facts meet the conditions).

4) Able to see an issue from more than one point of view, even if it goes against their political position.

I don't see any conservative making any attempt at intelligent discussion. Is there anyone who can step up to this challenge?
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 30 Jan, 2020 09:43 pm
@maxdancona,
I do one through three all the time.

I can do #4 as well, but am not willing to do so.

But if one through three are acceptable by themselves, I'm ready to have a conversation whenever you are.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 30 Jan, 2020 09:50 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
This is not an intelligent argument. It is a silly argument.
I was making arguments like this in middle-school.

There is nothing wrong with sticking to your guns when you are the person who is factually correct.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 30 Jan, 2020 09:53 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
But, I do think you have an intellectual inability to question yourself, to admit any doubt, or to change your mind when you are wrong.

You are mistaken. I have always admitted it when it has been proven that I am wrong.

Why didn't you admit it when I proved that you were wrong about Israel's past peace offers to the Palestinians?


maxdancona wrote:
This statement shows an intellectual failure.

Not if I am actually completely correct. Then I am right to say so.


maxdancona wrote:
I wish that we could discuss some of the more interesting, more intelligent issues being raised in this trial... they aren't simple.

I do not believe that there are any such issues being raised by this trial.

I'll be happy to discuss any hypothetical questions about the Constitutional balance of power that you'd like to explore however.


maxdancona wrote:
When the answer is "conservative right, democrats bad"... come on. I appeal to your intelligence to see how silly this stance is.

It's not silly when it is the truth.

But regardless, if you want to explore hypothetical constitutional issues, have at it.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jan, 2020 09:59 pm
@oralloy,
I would like to see any evidence you can tell the difference between fact and opinion. I am still waiting. Starting by expressing how any of your facts meet the falsifiability condition would be a good start.

I don't think I have ever seen you admit where your opposition (that would be people you disparage as "progressives") make a valid point even though it doesn't fit your political ideology.

You and I have never been able to dive into the more complicated issues that interest me because they don't have a simple solution.... usually we are stuck with these silly simplistic "opinions as facts" that aren't even really interesting.

I would love to see a conservative here that is willing to engage in intelligent discussion rather than the ideological blather on this thread.


oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 30 Jan, 2020 10:17 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
I would like to see any evidence you can tell the difference between fact and opinion. I am still waiting.

This is a fact: 2+2=4

This is an opinion: I think that it is good that 2+2=4


maxdancona wrote:
Starting by expressing how any of your facts meet the falsifiability condition would be a good start.

Providing evidence that something I say is wrong will prove that I am wrong.


maxdancona wrote:
I don't think I have ever seen you admit where your opposition (that would be people you disparage as "progressives") make a valid point even though it doesn't fit your political ideology.

I think that higher taxes on the wealthy to fund more social programs are a good thing.

I also favor strong regulations to provide safety and protect the environment.


maxdancona wrote:
You and I have never been able to dive into the more complicated issues that interest me because they don't have a simple solution.... usually we are stuck with these silly simplistic "opinions as facts" that aren't even really interesting.

If you want to discuss one of these issues, do so.

If you choose not to do so, don't blame me for your choice.

Facts are not opinions however.


maxdancona wrote:
I would love to see a conservative here that is willing to engage in intelligent discussion rather than the ideological blather on this thread.

I'm willing. Fire away.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jan, 2020 10:33 pm
@oralloy,
When you state and opinion, and then claim that your opinion is a fact, it is impossible for anyone to disprove it. How do you disprove an opinion. When you say "Nixon did nothing wrong" this is a (rather extreme) opinion. It is an opinion (and a rather meaningless one) because there is no definition of "wrong".

When you claim something is fact... it is your responsibility to support it.

When you claim that all of your posts are facts.. that is just silly.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 30 Jan, 2020 11:00 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
When you state an opinion, and then claim that your opinion is a fact, it is impossible for anyone to disprove it. How do you disprove an opinion.

Don't worry. I don't do anything like that.


maxdancona wrote:
When you say "Nixon did nothing wrong" this is a (rather extreme) opinion. It is an opinion (and a rather meaningless one) because there is no definition of "wrong".

That is incorrect. That is a fact.

Here's a definition:
not in accordance with justice, law, morality, etc.; unlawful, immoral, or improper
https://www.yourdictionary.com/wrong


maxdancona wrote:
When you claim something is fact... it is your responsibility to support it.

You are free to ask me to support any claim that you find questionable. I should be able to provide either facts or logic (or both) to support the claim in question.


maxdancona wrote:
When you claim that all of your posts are facts.. that is just silly.

I don't claim that. Sometimes I post facts alone. Sometimes I also post opinions about those facts. Sometimes I post opinions about something that someone else said. I post all sorts of things.

Sometimes I post speculation and predictions. When the next Winter Olympics is about to start, would you care to pit your mettle against mine in predicting all of the figure skating medal winners?

By the way, what happened to your desire to discuss deeper constitutional issues? I was expecting you to dive into some kind of constitutional question.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Thu 30 Jan, 2020 11:15 pm
@oralloy,
Ok... this is silly. You really have to be able to see this.

I have an opinion that what Nixon did was both improper and immoral. This is very clearly an opinion because everyone makes different judgments about what is moral or proper. I would never state that Nixon was immoral as a fact. It is not a factual statement.

This is clearly another case where you are stating your opinion (in this case a moral judgment) as a fact.

(For the record, I also think that Nixon did was illegal, but that is another question.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 30 Jan, 2020 11:18 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
I have an opinion that what Nixon did was both improper and immoral.

What was supposedly immoral or improper about his acts?
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jan, 2020 11:19 pm
@maxdancona,
The real problem is that you have literally defined "reality" as a political ideology. I suppose that makes everything logically consistent (which is why no one can ever "prove you wrong".

However it makes it impossible for you to live in the real reality, where there is more than one ideology and not everything works out to some ridiculously simplistic narrative.


 

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Witch Hunts - Discussion by shewolfnm
 
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