On Funk and Soul

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....First of all allow me to state my credentials. I'm African-American, and I am a Musician/Entertainer. That doesn't guarantee I'm an expert, I know if this were an Italian entertainer speaking on Opera, I'd consider it a good starting point. Smile

....Now, everyone has a pretty good idea of Soul, my task is to dance on that thin line separating it from Funk. Although soul music as a genre, and element of art is to primarily a "Black thing", It is not soley the province of Black People. Any art is to some degree the expression of the soul of an artists' soul through their chosen media. In music Blacks may have an advantage but there are many exceptions. For eexample right now, I believe to of the greatest soul singers at present, are Joss Stone and Pink.Both White woman. One of my all time favorite funky musicians, is Bonnie Raitt.
....Now for the fun.I think Funk as compared to soul is a step deeper in baring the soul, and done with raw feeling and simplicity in expresion.
.....To kick it off I'll give a few examples for discernment:
.....Blood .Sweat & Tears, are soulful...Creedence Clearwater Rivival is Funky. Earth, Wind, and Fire, are soulfull, Ohio Players are Funky. James Brown, is soulful, Dyke & The Blazers, are funky.
.....This should get you started. I'll return later. Oh..remember, this can only be opinion. There can be no absolute right and wrong.

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Curious, so where would you put Bobby "Blue" Bland or Papa John Creach?

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Bobby-soulful...I'm not familiar with Creach.

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Anita Baker - soulful
George Clinton - funky

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I think funk tends toward a much more syncopated rhythm than soul.

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Booman, I'm not sure what funk music is (have pity on an old hippie).

For soul, I think of Sam Cook, James Brown, Ray Charles and, perhaps, Dianne Reeves and Nina Simone.

And what about Johnthon Burke? I'm not sure if his first name is Johnathon and I'm too sleepy to check, but he has a glorious voice.

Goodnight, Gracie.

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Aidan-I would put GC on the borderline. In my vision, the funkiest performers rarely use funk in describing themselves. but I have to admit GC and the gang are the closest thing to funk among Disco performers. Of course, all we can do is state our opinions. You are just as valid as I am.
....No argument here Diane.
....Some of my eyebrow raising opinions: Soulful, -Mario Lanza, Leontye Price, Frank Sinatra. A bit on the funky side-Tony Bennett, Diane Shure.

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always thought James Brown was funky, not that i'm any sort of funk expert. you seem to be implying that if something is polished, it's soul rather than funk. i'm glad you acknowledged that soul and funk transcend racial categories. i certainly wouldn't consider Johnny Mathis funky, for example, just because he's african american. Smile

you're a jazz buff, and so am i, so i'd like to hear your viewpoint on one of my favorites, Joe Zawinul. always thought he was funky; what do you say?

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Joe Zawinul...trhat sounds quite familiar...Was he with Cannonball?
.... You;re right about the polish, The Montgomery brothers were funky, before the rest of the Jazz world discovered Wes.

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Kewl thread!

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I always thought Brubeck had a tinge of funk, but it's really scarce in Jazz, be cause it's a bit more sophisticated and evolved. It is after all American Classical Music.

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I love Brubeck, I have his cd. We are talking about The David Brubeck Quartet right? I have "Time Out"

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How about Wynton Marsalis? I have his cd "Classic Wynton".

And how about Miles Davis?

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here's a brief bio of Josef (Joe) Zawinul. born in Austria, he first became well-known as Cannonball's pianist, although he accompanied Dinah Washington before joining Cannonball. with Cannonball, he penned the classic tune Mercy, Mercy, Mercy. he then made a couple of important appearances on Miles Davis recordings, In a Silent Way--for which he composed the title track--and Bitches Brew. then he joined forces with Wayne Shorter to form Weather Report, probably the best jazz fusion band ever.

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Yeah Baby!
....Biue Ronda a la turk( Iknow I messed up somewhere there) is a bit funky. and that' s a funky thing to me. in Take 5, when Dave kept time while Joe took a solo on drums. I had a personal experience like that, I'll share with you in just a minute.

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booman,

interesting you mentioned the montgomery brothers and funk. was the fact that Wes played by ear a factor? or in general, the more theory a musician has studied, the less funky he becomes? while i'm talking about musicians playing by ear, some famous singers also couldn't read music, including elvis & sinatra. you seem to be a sinatra fan; do you thing his being 'unschooled' had any effect on his performances?

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Angel,
.....The two trumpeters you named. not in My opinion. Winton is just too cerebral. Miles I defer to you.

Yitwail,
.....I see your point. Mercy is really funky as is Country Preacher

....Dig this now, To me and most Jazz afficianados The most talented Women in jazz are Ella ,Carmen, and of course Sarah. ( I genuflect when I think of her :wink: ) However, my favorite is Gloria Lynne, 'cause she is so funky. I just this minute put on her CD.
....Next post I'll explain my "Simular experiance"

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the divine Sarah Vaughan! she could even play a mean piano, too, although the only time i ever saw it was on a clip from a TV show. there's so many greats i never got to see--Hendrix & Coltrane top the list--but Sassy i was fortunate enough to see several times, and it was always a thrill.

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How about "Urban Knights II", with Ramsey Lewis, Gerald Albright, Jonathan Butler, Najee, and Sonny Emory?

Thanking you in advance for the great information.

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Yitwail,
....Yes he is pretty soulful. One criteria, virtuosity is a lower priorty than tonal quality. Each note is an aesthetic gift.
.....Now, about my 'experience". I was in the audience at a lounge in my home St.Louis. A small jazz combo was inside a wrap around. C-shaped table. I was at this table. I was so close, I could literally reach out and touch one of the musicians. I was so caught up in a tune, I started to banging the bar, one beat to a measure, with a plastic ashtray. The next thing I knew, the place got a whole lot quieter and I then noticed as I opened my eyes and ears, all the instruments had stopped except the drummer, who was looked dead at me with a.. Twisted Evil

..while he took a two or three minute solo. It seemed like an eternity, because I was keeping time, with my ashtray. that was one of thegreatest, and scariest moments of my life!

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