Freedom of Speech doesn't cover Holocaust denial, Germany's top court rules

@izzythepush,

Quote:

You don't help yourself when you repeatedly refuse to make a distinction between Israel and ordinary Jewish people.

You must have missed my post about working for Florsheim Shoe Company.

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@cicerone imposter,

You implied as much when you said Jewish people survived the Holocaust.

You're not helping the Palestinian cause by belittling the effects of the Holocaust.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

Quote:

You're not helping the Palestinian cause by belittling the effects of the Holocaust.

I never belittled the effects of the holocaust. That's all in your own imagination. I also talked about the current situation in Israel and their illegal settlements in Palestinian Territories.

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@cicerone imposter,

It's not in my imagination. I've explained how you're doing it. When your response to the Holocaust is that people survived it you're making out it's no big deal.

I didn't say you were doing it deliberately, but you're still doing it.

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@cicerone imposter,

Tell you what, why not treat the Holocaust and Israel as two completely separate subjects?

There is no reason whatsoever to talk about Israel on a thread about the Holocaust. There are threads that deal with Israel already, use one of them.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

Sounds fair, and I agree. I'm a wee bit sensitive on the subject of discrimination, having experienced it in our country. You may not be old enough, but our government put us Japanese Americans into concentration camps during WWII. I'm third generation American, but as a young teen, a white man told me to "go back to your own country." It's happening again with Donald Trump.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Honestly I'm not trying to start an argument, but you know as well as I do that any criticism of Israel, however mild or justified, garners cries of anti Semitism from the likes of Oralloy. And we don't want to make things easy for him.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

It is only unjustified accusations that Israel is committing imaginary atrocities that I label as antisemitism. I would not so label criticism that was actually fair.

No need to worry about making things easy for me. They are easy for me already. Actually I would relish a challenge. It would be a bit less boring.

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@oralloy,

You live in a fantasy world.

And you're an anti Semite, criticism of Israel is often justified, Holocaust Denial never is.

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

You live in a fantasy world.

Your inability to point out anything that I'm wrong about speaks for itself.

izzythepush wrote:

And you're an anti Semite,

You cannot point out any such behavior on my part.

izzythepush wrote:

criticism of Israel is often justified,

Not when it falsely accuses Israel of imaginary atrocities.

izzythepush wrote:

Holocaust Denial never is.

True.

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@oralloy,

Oralloy, I think the problem is that you can't see which of your statements is subjective.

Your definition of "neonazi" is subjective. You just made up that definition to fit your argument.

Your definition of "imaginary atrocities" is subjective. I am upset about the Israeli settlement policy which includes bulldozers knocking down peoples houses. You can argue that this isn't an "atrocity" or you can come up with reasons that this is Israel's right... but it isn't imaginary (there are pictures of these bulldozers and Isarael doesn't even deny it).

Pretty much everything you are saying is subjective.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

I am upset about the Israeli settlement policy which includes bulldozers knocking down peoples houses.

Why would this upset you? Those Palestinians were illegally building without the proper permits.

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@oralloy,

You are really having trouble with this fact vs. opinion thing. When I say that I am upset, I am clearly expressing an opinion. When I say that Israel is acting immorally, I am clearly applying my subjective moral values.

The fact is that Israel is bulldozing people's houses. Your reaction and my reaction to that fact are subjective and obviously different.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

So, Israel controls area A along with the rest of the West Bank.

1 Reply

@InfraBlue,

Why would you say that? Are these building demolitions occurring in Area A?

1 Reply

@oralloy,

The ones occurring this week are.

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@InfraBlue,

Why do you think that this week's home demolitions fall within Area A?

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

You are really having trouble with this fact vs. opinion thing.

That is incorrect. I am not having any trouble with this.

maxdancona wrote:

When I say that I am upset, I am clearly expressing an opinion.

It must be a pretty weak opinion. When asked why this would upset you, you didn't bother to explain why you object to it.

maxdancona wrote:

When I say that Israel is acting immorally, I am clearly applying my subjective moral values.

Moral values that you are apparently either unable or unwilling to explain or justify.

maxdancona wrote:

The fact is that Israel is bulldozing people's houses. Your reaction and my reaction to that fact are subjective and obviously different.

I am able to explain and justify all of my positions, and I am happy to do so.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Oralloy, I think the problem is that you can't see which of your statements is subjective.

No. The problem is that I post facts that the left does not wish to see posted.

maxdancona wrote:

Your definition of "neonazi" is subjective. You just made up that definition to fit your argument.

This is silly. When people falsely accuse Jews of imaginary atrocities and try to rally people to harm Jews because of those imaginary atrocities, they are clearly neonazis.

If they try to disguise their neonazism by directing their false accusations of imaginary atrocities "at Israel" instead of "at Jews" that changes nothing.

maxdancona wrote:

Your definition of "imaginary atrocities" is subjective.

Not at all. It means that the accusation is false and no such atrocity has taken place. The meaning is very clear.

maxdancona wrote:

I am upset about the Israeli settlement policy which includes bulldozers knocking down peoples houses. You can argue that this isn't an "atrocity" or you can come up with reasons that this is Israel's right... but it isn't imaginary (there are pictures of these bulldozers and Isarael doesn't even deny it).

A real event that is in no way an atrocity can be fairly referred to as an imaginary atrocity. It is not the event that is imaginary, but the atrocity.

maxdancona wrote:

Pretty much everything you are saying is subjective.

That is incorrect. Most of what I post is cold hard fact. Although I do occasionally also express an opinion about the facts that I post.

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@oralloy,

That's what the news reports state.

1 Reply

Freedom of Speech doesn't cover Holocaust denial, Germany's top court rules

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