Freedom of Speech doesn't cover Holocaust denial, Germany's top court rules

@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS
About the Israel Palestine Conflict
Q: WHAT IS THE STRUGGLE BETWEEN ISRAEL AND THE PALESTINIANS ABOUT?
The violence between Israelis and Palestinians is often falsely presented as a conflict between two equal sides with irreconcilable claims to one piece of land.

In reality, this is a conflict over territory between a nation-state, Israel, with one of the world’s most powerful and well-funded militaries, and an indigenous population of Palestinians that has been occupied, displaced, and exiled for decades.

After watching JVP’s 101 video above, we recommend browsing the updated guide to having difficult conversations about Israel/Palestine, learning about the international Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement, and taking a look at a more in-depth primer like Phyllis Bennis’ “Understanding the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict–A Primer”.

US Campaign For Palestinian Rights:
10 JULArchaeologists on Twitter Tear Down Netanyahu’s Claims That Palestinians Have ‘No Connection’ to Homeland
Written by uscpr Categorised Appearances
Mondoweiss reports on Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s latest attempt to erase the connection of the Palestinian people to their land and USCPR Executive Director Yousef Munayyer’s response. Addressing Netanyahu’s statement that “The Palestinians’ connection to the Land of Israel is nothing compared to the 4,000 year connection that the Jewish people have with the land,” Munayyer replied:

“Jews as well as Palestinian Muslims & Christians and countless other peoples have a connection to the land. Zionism demands a hierarchy making Jewish connection supreme to legitimize itself. Problem isn’t history but misuse of it to deny human rights.”

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Jews mention the holocaust often, but they can't see and admit to the holocaust they are perpetrating against the Palestinians. Their complaints have no basis. How would you feel if some group of people took over your property under duress? Would you feel violated?

2 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

Don't conflate Israel's behaviour with the Holocaust.

Holocaust denial is wrong, it starts the process of rehabilitating the Nazis and makes another one much more likely.

Allowing hate speech the protection of free speech results in more hate crimes like this.

Quote:

The Charleston church shooting (also known as the Charleston church massacre) was a mass shooting in which Dylann Roof, a 21-year-old white supremacist, murdered nine African Americans (including the senior pastor, state senator Clementa C. Pinckney) during a prayer service at the Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in downtown Charleston, South Carolina, on the evening of June 17, 2015.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charleston_church_shooting

Clearly that's what Max means when he claims America is "getting it right."

2 Replies

@izzythepush,

The thing about drawing a line between "speech that is allowed" and "speech that is outlawed" is that a future dictator could redraw that line to outlaw legitimate peaceful protest.

Having a system where no such lines are allowed to be drawn and all speech is protected does allow people to get away with saying some pretty awful stuff. But in exchange we avoid the possibility of a future government maliciously redrawing the line to our detriment.

There is probably no such thing as a perfect system in government. The best any country can do is choose which strengths and weaknesses they want in their system.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

The current Israeli Jews are taking land away from Palestinians against international laws.

Wrong again. International law only requires Israel to give up that land as part of a negotiated outcome where everyone agrees to make peace with Israel in exchange for giving up that land.

Israel has repeatedly offered to do this. It is not their fault that the Palestinians refuse to ever make peace.

cicerone imposter wrote:

The Israelis also have armed guards on the roads where Palestinians cannot travel.

The US has armed police officers on our roads too. And we don't allow foreigners who are in our country illegally to travel on our roads.

cicerone imposter wrote:

That makes Israel not a democracy that the United States government would have us believe.

Wrong again. The Israeli government has regular democratic elections.

0 Replies

@izzythepush,

I'm not conflating anything; it's an opinion that many will agree with. I don't need a internet police to tell me what I can say or not. I post my opinion having visited Israel two times, and knowing the atrocities they are perpetrating against the Palestinians. International laws supports my views. The holocaust does not justify the Jews to treat the Palestinians by stealing their properties. It's an observation of fact. Many Jews agree with my opinion. https://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/09/israelis-against-israeli-settlements/

2 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

While it is true that you are allowed to falsely accuse Jews of imaginary atrocities, it is a pretty despicable thing to do.

Only neonazis will agree with such outrageous false accusations.

0 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

They claim it's a security barrier against terrorism. They have their concept of terrorism in reverse.

Wrong again. When Palestinians run around deliberately murdering innocent children, that is very much the definition of terrorism.

0 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

Problem isn't history but misuse of it to deny human rights.

I agree. A prime example of this would be when people deny that Israeli Jews are indigenous to the West Bank.

History and archaeology both agree that the Israeli Jews are the original inhabitants of the area.

0 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Jews mention the holocaust often, but they can't see and admit to the holocaust they are perpetrating against the Palestinians.

Falsely accusing Jews of imaginary atrocities is despicable. Shame on you!

cicerone imposter wrote:

Their complaints have no basis.

I am unsure which complaints by Jews you are referring to, but it is a virtual certainty that their complaints are entirely legitimate.

cicerone imposter wrote:

How would you feel if some group of people took over your property under duress? Would you feel violated?

One good way of not having an indigenous population come back to reclaim their land would be to not live on stolen land to begin with.

At any rate, if the Palestinians want Israel to hand over that land, all the Palestinians have to do is agree to make peace with Israel.

If the Palestinians refuse to make peace, then it is their own fault that they aren't getting any more land.

0 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

You are, you started off the post by saying Jews shouldn't, not Israelis. Many of the Jewish diaspora have very little, if anything, to do with Israel, and they shouldn't suffer anti Semitism because of that country's appalling human rights record.

2 Replies

@oralloy,

Absolute nonsense. If you've got a situation where a future dictator is already installed they're not going to worry about free speech.

Your free for all encourages hate crimes and puts truth and lies on equal footing.

Free speech is not the be all and end all, human rights are, and that should take priority over protecting hate speech.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

What I said was,

Quote:

Jews mention the holocaust often,...

which is a fact. https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/should-the-holocaust-refer-to-all-wwii-victims-or-only-to-jews/ This Jew claims "everybody" is jealous of the Jews. Really? Also, https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/should-the-holocaust-refer-to-all-wwii-victims-or-only-to-jews/.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

They have to when its very existence is being questioned.

It happened, and we need to make sure it doesn't happen again. We've already allowed Srebrenica and Rwanda to occur.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

Absolute nonsense. If you've got a situation where a future dictator is already installed they're not going to worry about free speech.

It depends on the ruthlessness of the dictator. Some try to do things like bend the rules while retaining a veneer of legitimacy. Such a dictator would have trouble redrawing a line that doesn't exist.

A dictator who just kills anyone who opposes him without caring about appearances of legitimacy would not be stopped by such a measure, but that is a worst case scenario.

izzythepush wrote:

Your free for all encourages hate crimes and puts truth and lies on equal footing.

But who decides what is the truth and what is a lie? And how do we prevent such arbitrators from abusing their power and promoting lies over the truth?

At any rate, like I said, no system will ever be perfect. The best that people can do is choose which strengths and weaknesses they want in their system.

izzythepush wrote:

Free speech is not the be all and end all, human rights are, and that should take priority over protecting hate speech.

We consider free speech to be a human right equal to all the others.

0 Replies

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

You are, you started off the post by saying Jews shouldn't, not Israelis. Many of the Jewish diaspora have very little, if anything, to do with Israel, and they shouldn't suffer anti Semitism because of that country's appalling human rights record.

Israel's human rights record is not appalling though. Israel merely defends themselves from aggressors who refuse to ever make peace with them.

0 Replies

@izzythepush,

History proves they survived. Chiune Sugihara, a Japanese diplomat, saved thousands of Jews. If you think from my posts that I hate Jews, you are mistaken. I worked for Florsheim Shoe Company, and it's the company that provided me with opportunities to work in management for their company during a time Asians were held back from management positions. I had two other Jewish bosses, and they treated me with respect and dignity; and gave me promotions and pay raises. I'm talking about how the Jews in Israel treated the Palestinians. It was illegal under international laws. I'm also Japanese, but also criticize what Japan did in China and the Far East. It was inhumane, and disrespectful of international laws. I agreed with Truman's use of the atomic bombing of Hiroshima, my ancestral home.

2 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

I'm talking about how the Jews in Israel treated the Palestinians. It was illegal under international laws.

Not illegal at all. International law only asks Israel to hand over that land as part of a negotiated outcome where Israel receives peace in return.

Israel has agreed to this many times. It isn't their fault that the Palestinians refuse to ever make peace with them.

0 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

That doesn't make the Holocaust any less of a crime.

You don't help yourself when you repeatedly refuse to make a distinction between Israel and ordinary Jewish people.

2 Replies

@izzythepush,

I never claimed any such thing. Your imagination is now running wild. By the time Sugihara left Lithuania he had issued visas to 2,140 persons. These visas also covered some 300 others, mostly children. Not everyone who held visas was able to leave Lithuania, however, before the Soviet Union stopped granting exit visas.

Sugihara left Lithuania in early September 1940. The Japanese transferred him to Prague in Bohemia and then to Bucharest, Romania, Germany's ally, where he remained until after the end of the war. During the victorious Soviet army's march though the Balkans in 1944, the Soviets arrested Sugihara together with other diplomats from enemy nations. Soviet authorities held him and his family, under fairly benign conditions, for the next three years. When Sugihara returned to Japan in 1947, the Foreign Ministry retired him with a small pension as part of a large staff reduction enacted under the American occupation.

Sugihara held a variety of jobs after the war including one for a Japanese trading company in Moscow from 1960 to 1975. Shortly before his death, Yad Vashem, the Holocaust Martyrs' and Heroes' Remembrance Authority in Israel, declared Sugihara "Righteous Among the Nations" for his aid to the refugees in Lithuania during World War II. Yad Vashem conferred the title in 1984, honoring the former Japanese consul with a ceremony in Jerusalem in January 1985.

1 Reply

Freedom of Speech doesn't cover Holocaust denial, Germany's top court rules

Quick Links

My Account

able2know