5
   

Possibility of being pregnant

 
 
HabibUrrehman
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 18 Jul, 2019 08:51 am
@jespah,
Shall be start with the very basics?

Let's see how the sources you said you will trust define what is mensuration cycle or what is period?

Quote:
What is a period and why do we have them?
Simply put: A period is when a woman’s body releases tissue it no longer needs. This tissue comes from the uterus, which is where a baby (fetus) can develop in the female body. Every month or so, the uterus lining gets thicker to prepare for a fertilized egg if the woman becomes pregnant. If the egg doesn’t get fertilized, that lining is released from the body as blood through the vagina. This monthly process is called menstruation or a period.
Source: https://always.com/en-us/tips-and-advice/your-first-period/10-common-period-questions


Quote:
What's the menstrual cycle?

The menstrual cycle is the monthly series of changes a woman's body goes through in preparation for the possibility of pregnancy. Each month, one of the ovaries releases an egg — a process called ovulation. At the same time, hormonal changes prepare the uterus for pregnancy. If ovulation takes place and the egg isn't fertilized, the lining of the uterus sheds through the vagina. This is a menstrual period.
Source: https://www.mayoclinic.org/menstrual-cycle/art-20047186/in-depth/art-20047186


Quote:
What is menstruation?
Menstruation (pronounced men-stroo-EY-shuhn) is normal discharge of blood and tissue from the uterine lining through the vagina
Source: https://www.nichd.nih.gov/health/topics/menstruation/conditioninfo


As we can see that mensuration is the shedding of the lining of uterus and this is the key concept to understand the rest. Anytime bodily fluids are coming out of someone, it's uncomfortable. Blood coming out from the mysterious nether regions is particularly unsettling, and to many, men and women, a little gross. It will be total insane if both men and women can not leave a momentary pleasure at the risk of a lifetime of regret.

It should not be questionable that sex during your period can spread a sexually transmitted infection (STI) like HIV or hepatitis. These viruses live in blood, and they can spread through contact with infected menstrual blood. If this is questionable for anyone of you here, we can debate in length.

Below is the source (non-Islamic) which mentions some of the diseases just as increased inflammation, infection of reproductive system and some others:

https://cancerlive.net/women-health/sex-during-menstruation/

Below are some of the quotes from source I mentioned above.

Quote:
The female body during menstruation resistance is weak, sexual intercourse can cause inflammation


Quote:
Women, menstrual cramps, endometrial (uterine inside layer of tissue that) a piece of land down the strip off. Female sexual intercourse during menstruation, it is easy to vulva and perineum (between vagina and anus area) around the bacteria into the vagina, cervix into the uterus as well as bacteria in the blood and the place just the growth and reproduction, local inflammation, called endometritis, not only fever, lower abdominal pain, and increased menstrual bleeding, menstrual period be extended. If the infection of bacterial virulence is very strong, but also through the endometrium outside the lymphatic spread to the uterus into the pelvic cavity, causing acute inflammation accessories (including the fallopian tubes and ovaries) and pelvic peritonitis, it is not only a fever and abdominal pain may also be affect future fertility. Once the inflammation of the fallopian tube adhesions can occur, while in luminal occlusion, the sperm can not can not become pregnant.


Before you call this cherry picking again even though this time around I did not use any Islamic scholar or resources to make my point, let me quote from more academic resources ( not the Wikipedia type resources which you have excessively used. You probably know why Wikipedia is not a reliable resource and why it is not allowed to be used in academic research).

Quote:
Menstruation AND PREMENSTRUAL ISSUES
Menstruation is the shedding of the endometrium that occurs on a regular basis in females of reproductive age
Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/menstruation
By: ProfessorCrispian Scully CBE, MD, PhD, MDS, MRCS, FDSRCS, FDSRCPS, FFDRCSI, FDSRCSE, FRCPath, FMedSci, FHEA, FUCL, FBS, DSc, DChD, DMed (HC), Dr (hc), in Scully's Medical Problems in Dentistry (Seventh Edition), 2014


Quote:
Pelvic inflammatory disease
Source:
Joseph E. Pizzorno ND, ... Herb Joiner-Bey ND, in The Clinician's Handbook of Natural Medicine (Third Edition), 2016

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/menstruation

Pathogen access to upper female tract

Menstruation, sperm, and trichomonads help transport pathogens into the salpinx.
• Infections occurring around menses tend to be GC rather than CT. Menstrual regurgitation may carry sloughed endometrium with attached GC or intracellular CT organisms that proliferate in tubal epithelium or on peritoneal surfaces.
• Human sperm: bacteriospermia is a cause of infertility in men; 66% to 75% of men who tested positive for GC were asymptomatic. Sperm are vectors. Cervical mucus is an effective mechanical and immunologic barrier between flora of the vagina and upper tract. Yet organisms attached to sperm can easily traverse mucus column. Sperm migrate through menstrual plasma but not during the luteal phase or through cervical mucus of pregnancy. Sperm is intimately associated with cytomegalovirus, Toxoplasma, U. urealyticum, and Chlamydia.
• Motile trichomonads are another transporter, ascending from the vagina to the fallopian tubes, carrying additional invaders. Key observation: trichomonads are never isolated from human beings when heavy bacterial contamination is absent.


I leave this up to the ladies with uterus to either accept or reject the facts.
chai2
 
  4  
Reply Thu 18 Jul, 2019 09:04 am
@HabibUrrehman,
Yeah....We knew all that.

We'd all like to know where the flaying comes in, that your lawyer with a doctorate in law, not medicine, talks about. And what about the scarring? That sounds like something that you should explain in more depth.

Seriously, all that you've copy and pasted is not news. We all know what menstruation is, and how it works. Seems the boat left the dock without you though.

As far as that link provided.....it reads like it was written by a bot.

Don't know where you've gotten the idea that women don't understand how menstruation works, but thanks for the recap of the health class we all got in about 5th grade.

How long did it take you to find that ridiculous site with the nonsensical language and questionable info?

jespah
 
  2  
Reply Thu 18 Jul, 2019 10:07 am
@HabibUrrehman,
Wow, the National Institutes of Health, March of Dimes, and Mayo Clinic are all the same as Wikipedia? Now, why didn't all of the people who worked there think of that before?

  • Sloughing off the uterine lining isn't 'flaying'.
  • Nether regions aren't mysterious if you actually, you know, read about them from reputable source. And ask the people who have them (assuming you have a close enough relationship with them) if you're unsure.
  • Periods can hurt (mine sure as hell did). But they don't necessarily make anyone weak. In fact, in athletes, your period has no appreciable effect. See that bastion of Wikipedia, The New York Times: https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/08/17/how-periods-might-affect-womens-athletic-performance/
  • No one ever said you couldn't get an STD while having your period. Of course you can. And hell, you didn't even say that before. So quit moving the goal posts.
Any more cherry picking you feel like doing?

Have a lovely day. Me and my mysterious lady parts have to go back to work now.
HabibUrrehman
 
  0  
Reply Thu 18 Jul, 2019 10:16 am
@chai2,
Quote:
Dr. Muhammad al-Baar said, speaking of the harm that may be caused to the menstruating woman: The lining of the uterus is shed during menstruation, and the uterus is scarred as a result, just like when the skin is flayed. So it is vulnerable to bacteria and the introduction of the bacteria that are to be found at the tip of the penis poses a great danger to the uterus.  


Above is the quote in question and I understand why you are so upset about the words such as scarred and flayed but you need to understand that he is using those as analogy. It may be a bad analogy but the point he wants to make is the statements after that. What is important is that because of the uterus is shedding the lining, it is vulnerable to bacteria and rest of the stuff. My previous post as all academic resources which confirms what I want to say.

If you like to have sex during your period no one is stopping you to do that. Don't deny the facts if those are not news for you.
HabibUrrehman
 
  0  
Reply Thu 18 Jul, 2019 10:34 am
@jespah,
Quote:
Wow, the National Institutes of Health, March of Dimes, and Mayo Clinic are all the same as Wikipedia? Now, why didn't all of the people who worked there think of that before?


I did not say that, I did provide several references from Mayo Clinic and National Institute of health. But I don't consider Wikipedia as a source, if you do then you should educate yourself about how and who updates Wikipedia and why it is not used in research papers as a reference.

Quote:
Sloughing off the uterine lining isn't 'flaying'.


I agree with that and explained in my previous post that it is just an analogy to make the point. What is more important is that we all agree that during period, uterus is vulnerable to bacteria and may lead to infection and other diseases I mentioned in my previous post with all references. I have a whole list of things I mentioned which can result due to having sex during period. And you or other respected ladies could not prove any of those claims wrong. So what was this all fuss about?

At the end of the day you have uterus and I don't so you have free will do whatever you want to do with it during or after your periods.
glitterbag
 
  2  
Reply Thu 18 Jul, 2019 10:50 am
@HabibUrrehman,
Sighhhhhhhhhh........Lets not call it an analogy, what he has done is paint an inaccurate and rather insulting picture of a woman’s body functions as proof a woman’s body as an occasion of sin, and inferiority.

I’ve made jokes about vagina envy before on this forum, perhaps I inadvertently stumbled onto a ‘truth’.
HabibUrrehman
 
  0  
Reply Thu 18 Jul, 2019 11:23 am
@glitterbag,
Quote:
insulting picture of a woman’s body functions as proof a woman’s body as an occasion of sin, and inferiority.


How do you come to that conclusion?
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Thu 18 Jul, 2019 12:25 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
Except....and this is the 3rd time it's being said....

This guy al-Baar is not a medical doctor.

He got his doctorate in law.

Don't know how this lawyers words "The lining of the uterus is shed during menstruation, and the uterus is scarred as a result, just like when the skin is flayed. " Can in any way be taken as an analogy. He's pretty specific in his language that he believes a womans uterus is being scarred by the endometium being sloughed off the walls of the uterus. Yeah, the word flayed is being used as an analogy, a really awful one.

Nothing in the womans uterus is being scarred, and the endometrium falling away is absolutely nothing "like" being flayed. No more than washing your hands after gardening is scarring your hands, or flaying the skin off them.

I'm not particularly upset by the words scarred/flayed, as I know that's ridiculous. I am however, astounded by your continued ignorance.

So tell us again how we should keep quiet and listen to doctors.

Also, for the umpteenth time no one, ever, has denied the fact you can contract an STD, or get pregnant for that matter, during your period.
Don't know why you think anyone is disputing that information.

What exactly is it you're trying to say?

I'll tell you what I'm saying.

I'm saying stop crawfishing and making excuses for your piss poor research, using non medical people claiming they are doctors, using websites that don't even make sense when you try to read them as far as how words are put together. Also stop changing the goal post, suddently claiming things written were an analogy when it wasn't, and generally being an untrustworthy person.

How is anyone supposed to respect what you say when you do everything under the sun to keep from realizing you made a mistake?

That's not the end of the world you know, and I have a lot more respect for someone who doesn't act like because they don't know something, no one else does, and isn't willing to look at legitimate information or real time accounts, and learn from it.

HabibUrrehman
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 18 Jul, 2019 01:09 pm
@chai2,
Quote:
This guy al-Baar is not a medical doctor.

He got his doctorate in law.


https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mohammed_Albar
https://www.cilecenter.org/about-us/our-team/dr-mohammad-ali-al-bar

Below is his brief introduction given on one of the link above.

Quote:
Born in Aden, Yemen, on Dec. 29, 1939. He received his MBBS degree (with honours) from Cairo University (1964) and his Diploma of Internal Diseases, Cairo University (1969). He received membership in the Royal Colleges of Physicians (London, Edinburgh, and Glasgow) in February 1971 and became a fellow of the Royal College of Physicians, London in 1994. He developed interest in bioethics from an Islamic perspective and has participated in meetings and discussions on Islamic jurisprudence and ethics, including those of International Islamic Fiqh Academy, Jeddah, Islamic Fiqh Academy in Mecca and the Islamic Organization for Medical Sciences (IOMS), Kuwait. He serves as Director of the Medical Ethics Center, International Medical Center in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, and is an internal medicine consultant and advisor of the Islamic Medicine Department, King Fahd Center for Medical Research, King Abdul-Aziz University, Jeddah. He authored numerous publications on bioethical questions, including organ transplantation, stem cell research, sperm banks, AIDS, artificial insemination, abortion, contraception, embryology, brain death, and prophetic medicine.


Quote:
Also, for the umpteenth time no one, ever, has denied the fact you can contract an STD, or get pregnant for that matter, during your period.
Don't know why you think anyone is disputing that information.

What exactly is it you're trying to say?


If you agree then I have no issues. You are the one who initially disagreed, link to your post below:
https://able2know.org/topic/525149-1#post-6873759

Quote:
I'm saying stop crawfishing and making excuses for your piss poor research, using non medical people claiming they are doctors, using websites that don't even make sense when you try to read them as far as how words are put together. Also stop changing the goal post, suddenly claiming things written were an analogy when it wasn't, and generally being an untrustworthy person.

How is anyone supposed to respect what you say when you do everything under the sun to keep from realizing you made a mistake?

That's not the end of the world you know, and I have a lot more respect for someone who doesn't act like because they don't know something, no one else does, and isn't willing to look at legitimate information or real time accounts, and learn from it.


First of all of references are academic. If you somehow assumed Al-Baar is a lawyer then that's bad research on your part. I have been open in my communication and have been apologetic as well when I realize my mistake. It only proves I have no ego, I am sincere and honest. If you think it otherwise, that's up to you. I see good in all of you. If you think I am not trustworthy and honest then simply ignore my posts. You don't have to comment on every post in this forum.
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  4  
Reply Thu 18 Jul, 2019 02:25 pm
@jespah,
jespah wrote:



I have searched online for anyone claiming sex during menstruation gives you scars. Oh and BTW in case anyone was wondering, period sex doesn't increase your chance of endometriosis: https://www.health.com/news/does-period-sex-raise-your-risk-of-endometriosis

The only place I found where flaying and period sex were discussed together was a Muslim website: https://islamqa.info/en/answers/43028/the-reason-why-it-is-forbidden-to-have-intercourse-with-ones-wife-when-she-is-menstruating-or-bleeding-following-childbirth and the doctors on that site are these guys:
1) Dr. Muhiy al-Deen al-‘Alabi - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Nasiruddin_al-Albani, an Albanian Muslim scholar, not a medical doctor.




ok, you got me there (see how easy that was to admit?

however, as above, NOT an ob-gyn.

And....still don't see anything I said, from what you quoted or anything else I actually wrote, where I or anyone has stated that someone having their period can't get an STD.....Again, what are you trying to say, except that apparantly this thread has been an eye opening experience for you. That you felt you had to share your new found knowledge to women who have been menstruating for decades to let them know what their period is.

Thanks.

All those years I thought there were gremlins up in my hooha attending their 5 day, monthly tap dancing/knife throwing competition.
Just like waiting for Santa Claus, I would try to stay awake waiting for them. Each time though, I'd fall asleep and they'd climb up there.


HabibUrrehman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Jul, 2019 03:35 pm
@chai2,
That's ok and I appreciate that very much.

It has been a learning experience for me and I try to learn from my mistakes to get better. I think probably my main mistake as you and some other sisters ( and brother Roger) have pointed out was making an attempt to prove the virtue of Quranic verse through science. I do have very good understanding of Quran but of course I am not an expert in medical field by any stretch. I am a human being and do have my limitations. The sources I used were probably not that great but we all agree with the disadvantages of having sex during mensuration which are well known today but were not known 1400 years ago.

In answer to your question about what I wanted to say?

All I wanted was to share (not to impose) Islamic view but I think I screwed up big time probably the way I communicated or by putting too much emphasis on science or may be because the way people perceive Islam or religion in general.

Islam is a beautiful religion. I may be wrong in the way I wrote my post and replied to several posts afterwards but that does not mean teachings of Islam are bad. Many people in USA think that Islam oppresses women and does not allow them to do certain things. It is often misunderstood that women are considered sinful and inferior when they are on their period and that is why Islam does not let them pray or fast or have intercourse.

But that's not true. One of the basic goals of Islamic law is to remove harm and difficulty from people's lives. Quran does not say women are sinful and inferior when they are on their period. It prohibits intercourse and exempts all religious obligation such as praying and fasting in acknowledging that periods are painful for women.

I totally understand if mentioning of religion or Islam is offensive to someone but in my opinion we need to discuss our belief system with people around us so that we can understand each other better. It is far better is discussing these thing is respectful way than start hating due to certain stereotypes which media tell us to believe. I am not just sharing my views but I will also be more than happy to read and discuss your belief system. We can criticize each other positively and respectfully once we know each other little more and build the trust which is normally beneficial to have in such discussions.

Thanks for all the positive criticism on this topic. I also sincerely apologize if this has been offensive to anyone. My intentions have been pure and my God knows them more than anyone else.

Love and Peace to my brothers and sisters.
jespah
 
  4  
Reply Thu 18 Jul, 2019 03:49 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
I appreciate your saying this. Please understand that we women listen to mansplaining pretty much every day of the week. It's kinda comical to hear or read it about our own sex organs.

Also, not to put too fine a point on it (and I sincerely hope I do not offend you), the Quran is not a science text. Neither is the Talmud. Or the Book of Mormon. Or the Gospels. Or the Bhagavad Gita. Or Jane Eyre. Or Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban. Or The Fundamentals of Accounting.

Or any of millions of other books. Stretching any holy text to cover medical or scientific explanations of, well, anything, is a lot like looking for a love story in The Fundamentals of Accounting.

Our beliefs (and lack thereof) can be fascinating. But that's what they are: beliefs. By definition, faith is something you feel without proof. But science and medicine, and other facts, are held to a different standard. This does not diminish belief, I feel. All it does is untangle it.

And I apologize - I know I was overly snarky before.
HabibUrrehman
 
  0  
Reply Thu 18 Jul, 2019 04:03 pm
@jespah,
I do agree for the most part. I don't take such criticism personally or I should say I try not to. I am happy that it all ended up well. We get to know each other little more and for that this was all well worth.

Thanks sister
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  4  
Reply Thu 18 Jul, 2019 04:45 pm
@chai2,
I'm not sure if I have ever laughed so hard in my life

Voila!!

"All those years I thought there were gremlins up in my hooha attending their 5 day, monthly tap dancing/knife throwing competition.
Just like waiting for Santa Claus, I would try to stay awake waiting for them. Each time though, I'd fall asleep and they'd climb up there."

Madame, you have talent, I doff my hat
0 Replies
 
 

 
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