sexist

Forcing a pregnancy, which can be incredibly traumatic for many reasons, just to bring a child into the world as "punishment" for someone having unprotected sex is a disgusting view on how pregnant people should be treated.

Congratulations Max for once again correcting women, and other people with uteruses, on something that affects them and not you.

Thank God we have a manly man man man like you to come in and tell what the actual issues are. Because that's what women and trans/enby people need - is a cishet man to tell us what actually affects us and not listen to our experiences.

I feel sorry for your daughter.

I mean I was cat-called from a car when I was 12 and groped at school when I was 11 but I guess that's probably propaganda too.

And maybe instead of whining that girls are being portrayed as victims, wonder WHY girls make up so many victims and address THAT issue.

Also I'm a trans man, but was presenting as female at the time, misogyny affects us all.

Trust me I've seen how the world treated me as a girl compared to how the world treats me as a man and it's massively different. (These are instances where they have assumed I'm cis though)

1. There is a difference between the extreme "everything is sexist" to the moderate "somethings are sexist". I agree that unwanted cat-calling, and groping are example abusive sexism.

I don't believe that "correcting women" or disagreeing with women are sexism (assuming you can accept that women are human beings). I don't believe that swearing in front of women is sexism and more than swearing in front of men is.

The problem with the extremism is that you can't accept that different things are different.

2. There is a branch of feminism that believes that transgender men are an example sexism. There has been quite a bit of writing about "female erasure", the idea that transgender men are a threat to women. (For the record, I think that this branch of feminist thought is especially ridiculous).

Anything can be made into sexism.

TERFs aren’t feminists, they’re transphobes that pretend they care about women but actually side with far right ideologies.

They’re not feminists, they’re bigots.

Trans people are discriminated against though, cishet blokes aren’t.

The point is that you can call anything sexist. A couple of posts above you said that "correcting women" is sexist. In this last post you are "correcting" women.

If the word "sexist" is going to simply mean "disagreeing with women", then what's the point?

Last I checked the likes of you and Graham Linehan were cis men.

I don't know how you would ever know. I am pretty sure you haven't seen my genitals. I also don't think it matters one bit.

People should be treated as equals.

I want everyone to be treated as equals too. The problem is, they're not.

Of course, any conversation about trans rights has to lead back to genitals with you. Because that's all we are.

Creep.

Edit: For the record, trans people can have all kinds of genitals. There are trans men with penises and trans women with vaginas as well as other variants. Saying someone has to have ABC Genitalia in order to be XYZ Trans is bollocks. The reason I know you're not trans is by the blasé (and often incorrect terminology) way you refer to trans people - and the way you seem desperate to use your trans nephew as your ticket into transgender acceptance. The fact you instantly bring in genitals means you have a hell of a long way to go.

He wants equality but only his version of equality where he still has more rights than everyone else.

Equality means that you are just as much as a human being as I am, and that I am just as much as a human being as you are. I see you as my equal. You are a human being that has a set of experiences different to mine. Your opinions are valid, and you have the right to agree or disagree with me.

Your gender shouldn't matter, and neither should mine. Yes, I accept that there is discrimination and that certain groups face more discrimination than others. I don't see any need to insult you (although I seem to disagree with you on something things).

Actually, I am not sure what we are disagreeing about. You seem to be making insults, but I don't really know what your point is.

I agree with you that transgendered people face discrimination, and that people should be treated equally. And, I accept your experiences and your humanity. You seem to be saying that I am a sexist asshole... I disagree with you, but there is no point in arguing about this... it is your opinion, not really something to debate.

Are you just here to argue for the sake of arguing?

The question of this thread is whether women who believe that abortion ends a human life are sexist for their belief. The fact is that the number of women who believe this is roughly equal to the number of men who do.

I would love to hear your opinion on this without the insults.

It's transgender, not transgendered. I've explained why on another thread. Do some research.



That's not what OP is asking. She seems to be venting her frustrating about the issues in regards to fair and legal abortion access. Just because you've tried to hijack this thread for "let's turn it into an argument where women are bad" doesn't mean everyone else is seeing it this way.



And I would like to have a discussion about something that affects trans rights (because abortion access is often necessary for trans people but less accessible) without you banging on about our genitals as if that's the only thing that defines us - yet here we are.

You brought up the topic by insulting my sexuality. My comment on "genitals" was in response to your assigning me a birth gender. You, in essence, were making assumptions about my genitals (something about which you know nothing). You have slapped a label on me and me wrapped up in your own prejudices about what I should be like. You don't really know anything about me.

I am am a human being. I have good and bad and strengths and flaws and hurts and triumph that you have.

All I am asking is for you to accept me as a human being. And, I offer the same.

This is way off topic, but this needs saying.

I listen to my nephew. I care about him. To be honest, before my nephew started the process of transitioning I knew very little about anything about transgender issue. What I know now is because I love my nephew. I had to be trained about the importance of pronouns. He was very patient with me when he changed his name twice (and I kept forgetting), he knew I was sincerely trying and he supported us as much as we were trying to support him.

My nephew has never been combative... we are a family as imperfect as all of us are, we somehow support each other. Some of us had an easier time accepting this transition than others, but all of us have accepted him. For us it was personal, a matter of family and a matter of love... not a political fight. And, I will be the first to admit that I am not perfect.

Some people want to fight a war... to divide people into 'us' and 'them' where we are all good oppressed people and they are all sexist transphobic assholes. In real life, we are all human beings, none of us are perfect, all of us are trying to get along.

It is better if we can accept our differences and discuss our disagreement instead of constantly attacking and insulting anyone who doesn't fit our expectations.

Attaching labels like "sexist" on someone because they disagree with us on one issue (even if they agree with us on other issues) is exactly the point. They just add to more anger and hatred without adding anything to understanding.

Oh no the straight man is upset. I don't know how "last I checked you were cishet" (or something along the lines of) is an insult, but oh well. That or the fact that you really shouldn't be shouting your opinion on something that DOESN'T affect you over people it DOES. Maybe you're just fragile.



All I said what that I knew you weren't transgender, which you have made abundantly clear in other threads. The fact that you instantly think talk of trans = TALK OF GENITALS shows you're definitely not. That's really creepy, and I do feel sorry for your transgender nephew if this is how you go about talking to him about his identity.



Bollocks.

And if anyone wanted to know my abortion stance:

- I think abortions need to be safe, legal, and available for all.
- Anyone who doesn't is just wrong/miseducated on this. It’s denying often necessary healthcare for people based on a few cells that could “potentially hold life” yet nobody is outlawing masturbation (as semen can also “potentially hold life”)
- Most people who are “pro life” are only pro foetus and don’t care about things like school shootings, dead refugee children, children being abused in ICE confinement, etc.
- Misogyny isn’t the only factor (although it is a large factor), as often trans men, non-binary people, and other afab trans people are denied this healthcare. A trans man recently had a doctor tell him that his miscarriage should make him “accept he is not a real man”.
- Women can be misogynist. They don’t have to be anti abortion to be misogynist, and they may not be misogynist and anti-abortion.
- More people that have abortions are of colour (often black and Hispanic if we’re just talking USA) so there can even be racist reasons behind not wanting people of colour, especially women of colour and trans people of colour, to have access to what is necessary.
- Making abortion illegal won’t stop abortion. It will just bring back coat hangers, leading to much more dangerous abortions.
- There is an issue of class, affordability, and accessibility. Those that are anti-abortion often shout about how awful it is, then have mistresses they send away to fancy clinics in order to have it done without anyone knowing.
- It also forces people into poverty. They can’t afford healthcare, can’t afford protection, then can’t afford to have a baby and yet are forced to have a baby anyway.
- There are issues of ableism. Look at Savita Halappanavar. She was unable to carry a pregnancy to term and needed to have it aborted. She died, because the foetus ‘had a heartbeat’ (which is an oversimplification of what actually happens during the early days of pregnancy). She had a heartbeat too, but people forget her heart. Apparently the ‘potential life’ is more important than ‘actual life’.
- No birth control is 100% certain, and when sex education is being cut, or abandoned (or “abstinence only” programmes given) then people are less likely to be educated on how to have sex safely and are more likely to have unwanted pregnancies.
- Forcing anyone to have a baby is traumatic if they don’t want to have one. Nobody should be forced to have a baby if they don’t have one. “Schrodinger’s Baby” can’t exist where it’s simultaneously a blessing and a punishment for daring to get pregnant.

Based on the above I don’t think it’s morally right for ANYONE to be so-called “pro-life” (especially when pro-life stances generally leads to death, and trauma). If people read the above, take it on board, and still believe that abortion is the lesser of two evils then they really need to sort out their priorities.

I see three things here.


1. In some of the points you are expressing your opinion (perfectly valid). You state that "abortions need to be safe, legal and available for all". This is well-stated.

2. In some of these points you are attacking people who disagree with you. This is not valid or constructive. You say they are "just wrong/miseducated", and that they "don't care about things like school shootings or dead refugee children". These are ridiculous personal attacks.

Attacking someone, saying that they don't "care about dead refugee children" simply because they disagree with you on one issue is nasty and wrong. It is extremism.

3. You are making some valid points about race and abortions. I agree with you about sex education. I think you are overstating your case, but that is fine. And, you are giving some anecdotes appropriate to the discussion.

4. You are not addressing the difficult issue that divides the extreme pro-choice camp from most of America. I would guess that you believe that elective abortion should be legal until the moment of birth (you didn't directly state that).

But the issue of late term abortion is one reason that the Democrats are driving away moderate voters (yes, I understand you are not in the US, but other people reading this are).

No uterus no opinion.

What have I told you about talking to weirdos on the internet?