0
   

Another Government Shutdown Coming?

 
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 11 Feb, 2019 02:03 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
I think this whole argument is silly. The concepts are so basic the only explanation for your inability to understand them is that you are being ideologically blind.
I understand your arguments perfectly. Your arguments are just weak and unpersuasive.

maxdancona wrote:
Just watch what happens. Smarter Republicans are trying to talk Trump down from this scheme.
Everyone who opposes the President is smart. Everyone who supports the President is dumb.

Come on. Be serious.

maxdancona wrote:
I hope he does it. There is no credible legal expert who says this will stand up in court and many independent experts who say it won't.
Can you link to some of the legal experts who say it won't work?

No credible legal expert says it will work? Let me guess, any legal expert who says it will work is automatically deemed not credible?
livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Mon 11 Feb, 2019 04:22 pm
The question is whether:
1) there is evidence of trafficking, and whether it can be established that it's not all being produced domestically
2) whether the shipments that are currently getting intercepted are having effects on the domestic drug markets and what those effects are
3) what other options there are for combating trafficking, besides building a wall

Once the situation is assessed as well as possible, the president can order police action to combat drug trafficking, as it does constitute a health emergency. These are addictive substances that aren't being distributed and consumed in a responsible way. Is the surgeon general going to sign off on recreational drug use as nothing to worry about? I doubt it.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Mon 11 Feb, 2019 05:25 pm
@oralloy,
Andrew Napolitano on Fox News wrote:
The president has sworn not only fidelity to the Constitution but also to take care that federal laws be enforced. If he could disregard that oath, if he could ignore those laws, if he could spend money not authorized by Congress, if he could occupy private property not subject to eminent domain against the will of the owners -- in short, if he could make the laws, as well as enforce them, then he would not be a president. He'd be a monarch.


https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/judge-andrew-napolitano-can-president-trump-alone-build-a-border-wall
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 11 Feb, 2019 05:31 pm
@maxdancona,
Don't federal laws allow the President to declare emergencies and thereby transfer funds to address those emergencies?
livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Mon 11 Feb, 2019 05:53 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

Don't federal laws allow the President to declare emergencies and thereby transfer funds to address those emergencies?

I wonder if they have the power to raise tariffs and borrow against the prospective income from the tariffs, hence making Mexico pay for the wall, so to speak.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Mon 11 Feb, 2019 08:56 pm
Here we go!

The Congressional deal being leaked tonight gives...

- $1.4 billion for 55 miles of new "bollard" fencing with restrictions written in (I think on location and environmental impact).

- A slight decrease in funding for detention beds, but no new "cap" on interior beds (as the Democrats were asking for).

The ball is in Trump's court (assuming this passes and the pressure is pretty high to pass this). He can either shut down the government again, or sign the bill (with or without a national emergency).

Trump can also just declare victory... after all he has 55 miles of new fencing, that kind of counts as a wall.
0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  2  
Reply Mon 11 Feb, 2019 09:28 pm
U.S. lawmakers reach tentative deal to avoid government shutdown.

February 11, 2019
Quote:
WASHINGTON, Feb 11 (Reuters) - U.S. congressional negotiators said on Monday they reached a tentative deal on border security funding to avert another partial government shutdown due to start on Saturday, but an aide said it did not include the $5.7 billion President Donald Trump wants for a border wall.

"We reached an agreement in principle" on funding border security programs through Sept. 30, Republican Senator Richard Shelby told reporters.

"Our staffs are going to be working feverishly to put all the particulars together,” Shelby said. He did not say whether Trump would get any money for the U.S.-Mexico border wall.

It was not clear if Trump would embrace the agreement. His December demand for $5.7 billion to help pay for the wall - rejected by congressional Democrats - triggered a 35-day partial government shutdown that ended last month without him getting wall funding.

A congressional aide, who asked not to be identified, said the outline of the deal included $1.37 billion for erecting new (fencing) along the southern border.

That is about the same amount Congress allocated over the past couple years and far below what Trump has demanded.

The aide said (none) of the money would be for a "(wall)," which Trump has been touting since he launched his campaign for president in 2016.

Democrats say the wall would be costly and ineffective.

Trump was holding a rally in the border city of El Paso, Texas, on Monday night to argue for the wall he says can protect Americans from violent criminals, drugs and a "tremendous onslaught" of migrant caravans.

Trump said he heard about the progress in the talks just before he took the stage in El Paso, but he did not discuss details. "Just so you know - we're building the wall anyway," he said. "Maybe progress has been made - maybe not."

DETENTION BEDS

Under Monday's agreement, which must be fleshed out by congressional staff experts, Democrats would gave up on a demand they floated on Friday night to cap the number of immigrant detention beds in the interior of the United States.

Democrats had complained that the Trump administration was increasing detention capacity as a way of speeding up deportations of illegal immigrants, some of whom were seeking asylum under U.S. law.

But an overall cap - on borders and in the interior - would remain at 40,520 beds. The aide said that despite that cap, the number had actually grown to 49,057 and that under the deal, it would be brought down to the legal cap.

Democratic Representative Nita Lowey said on Monday night: "I hope by Wednesday we'll have a finished product." Lowey said she had been in touch with House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who she said "has confidence I have made the right decision."

Trump agreed to reopen the government last month for three weeks to allow congressional negotiators time to find a compromise on government funding for the rest of the fiscal year, which ends on Sept. 30, to avert another shutdown.

In Washington, the small group of lawmakers leading the negotiations met for about two hours on Monday. They said they wanted to seal a plan by Monday night to allow time for the legislation to pass the House and Senate and get Trump's signature by Friday, when funding is due to expire for the Department of Homeland Security, the Justice Department and several other federal agencies.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/u-lawmakers-optimistic-reaching-border-010957541.html
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Mon 11 Feb, 2019 11:44 pm
@McGentrix,
No comment, then, on the undeniable fact that this idiot border wall will not stop drugs from coming in? I'm not surprised.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Tue 12 Feb, 2019 10:40 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

No comment, then, on the undeniable fact that this idiot border wall will not stop drugs from coming in? I'm not surprised.


It works for prisons.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Feb, 2019 10:50 am
Does anyone else here agree with me that a Presidential veto leading to another shutdown would be pretty awesome!? (in a strictly partisan sense).
McGentrix
 
  2  
Reply Tue 12 Feb, 2019 12:43 pm
@maxdancona,
Only if you are not a government worker.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Feb, 2019 12:54 pm
@McGentrix,
Don't worry McGentrix. Presidential Vetoes can be overridden.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Feb, 2019 03:52 pm
@maxdancona,
If you think there are no drugs in prisons, you are hopelessly naïve.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Feb, 2019 03:53 pm
Oh, that's right . . . we have a lot of members who only post because they're attention whores.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Tue 12 Feb, 2019 03:58 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

If you think there are no drugs in prisons, you are hopelessly naïve.


Come on Setanta.... I think you are smarter than this. I am pretty sure everyone else got the joke.

We are on the same side here... no need for you to be an ass.


Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Feb, 2019 04:30 pm
@maxdancona,
That's one of the most feeble dodges out there, to claim that an idiotic remark one has made was a joke. There was nothing funny about what you wrote, nor any hint of humor or sarcasm. Don't be an ass.
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Feb, 2019 04:38 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

That's one of the most feeble dodges out there, to claim that an idiotic remark one has made was a joke. There was nothing funny about what you wrote, nor any hint of humor or sarcasm. Don't be an ass.


Hold on, you didn't get the sarcasm in that post?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

I hope I never get as bitter as you...
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  3  
Reply Tue 12 Feb, 2019 06:34 pm
Congress Agrees To $1.3 Billion For Protective Border Fencers

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--Z-CylV-D--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/n7sp3apo0ftym6mk9ldn.jpg
0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Tue 12 Feb, 2019 06:52 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Does anyone else here agree with me that a Presidential veto leading to another shutdown would be pretty awesome!? (in a strictly partisan sense).

The shutdowns are good only in the sense of stimulating supply-side economic flexibility.

Businesses, landlords, etc. are only used to raising prices over time, but they should also be able to go down in price. Deflation is necessary when incomes are decreasing because of things like furloughs, layoffs, downsizing, etc.

Economic growth is supposed to have recession to counterbalance it. It's called business cycles. It is what keeps prices and thus the value of money stable instead of it always inflating.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Feb, 2019 07:18 pm
@livinglava,
You and Setanta seem to be having trouble understanding... so let me spell it out as clearly as I can for you for both of you.

I oppose the wall and the conservative view on immigration in general. I think that what Trump is doing is politically stupid (fantastically so) and that he is damaging the conservative cause.

I am suggesting that if he shuts the government down again it will be a gross political blunder. It is going to turn the American public even more against Trump and by proximity the conservative anti-immigrant position.

This is something about which I am expressing glee.
0 Replies
 
 

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