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Pelosi's sarcastic applause: culture of hate?

 
 
Reply Wed 6 Feb, 2019 02:51 pm
If this article is correct and Pelosi's applause at the SOTU address was meant sarcastically, what does this say about contemporary culture and the place of negativity and even hate in how we respond to others whose ideas and opinions differ from our own?

In one sense, Pelosi's disagreement with Trump may be understandable and acceptable. She has different ideas about things, and she may not appreciate the view being expressed and applauded at that moment.

But then why clap at all? Is there some unbreakable social rule/norm that compels a person to clap and stand along with a crowd instead of just remaining seated and still?

Or is Pelosi perfectly capable of not responding to the speech and applause, only she wants to take her negativity a step further by clapping sarcastically?

And finally, who really cares what Pelosi does? The issue is more about culture in general. Is there a culture of hate that is growing so strong that something like sarcastic applause has become socially acceptable? Is there no more constructive and positive way to express dissent besides sarcasm and mockery toward your enemies?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 3 • Views: 400 • Replies: 29

 
neptuneblue
 
  5  
Reply Wed 6 Feb, 2019 03:40 pm
Is your life going to magically self-destruct over this?
maxdancona
 
  3  
Reply Wed 6 Feb, 2019 03:48 pm
@livinglava,
I think Pelosi's applause was sincere.

Trump has done more to elect female legislators than any man or woman in the history of democracy.
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Feb, 2019 04:06 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I think Pelosi's applause was sincere.

Trump has done more to elect female legislators than any man or woman in the history of democracy.



That sounds sarcastic.
Sturgis
 
  4  
Reply Wed 6 Feb, 2019 04:07 pm
@livinglava,
Quote:
If this article is correct...


Where's the article? Provide a link please.

Quote:
And finally, who really cares what Pelosi does?


So I take it you don't give a flying fig about what Trump does either. You know, his lies, his holding the country hostage to try and get a rather useless wall (or fence as he sometimes begs for), his beyond shady dealings, his multiple bankruptcies (although he claims to be a genius and a top business man).

About Pelosi, you should care, she's 3rd in line to become President.

Picture it: Trump gets tossed around then out. (Impeachment, irrefutable videos showing him in Moscow and other Russian cities during the time he swears he wasn't there and speaking fluent Russian. In fact his grasp of the Russian language is hundreds - no, thousands of times better than his hold of English. Quite a lot to get him removed...)

Mike Pence is revealed to have secrets In his closet too. He resigns, 2 hours after becoming President. He exits humiliated, never to be seen or heard from again.

Nancy Pelosi steps in, fills the job and the U.S. begins along the path of recovery, with the first female President of the U.S. leading the way!

Maybe Pelosi was just capturing fleas which kept flying out of Trump's hair-thing.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Feb, 2019 04:17 pm
@McGentrix,
Me? Of course not McGentrix, I would never be sarcastic toward such a great president.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Feb, 2019 04:21 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I think Pelosi's applause was sincere.

Trump has done more to elect female legislators than any man or woman in the history of democracy.



I agree. Whether they will be better than the devil we know is an open question.
0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 6 Feb, 2019 05:15 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Me? Of course not McGentrix, I would never be sarcastic toward such a great president.

Insincerity, including sarcasm, is radically anti-democratic. It undermines the possibility of constructive civil discourse.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Feb, 2019 05:36 pm
@livinglava,
Silly nonsense undermines the possibility of constructive civil discourse. Hmmm... maybe there is some way we could meet in the middle.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 6 Feb, 2019 07:15 pm
@maxdancona,
If Pelosi's applause was sarcastic and mocking (at this time I am not making any judgement as to whether or not it was), how is it silly nonsense for livinglava to criticize this as unhelpful for civil discourse?
0 Replies
 
tsarstepan
 
  4  
Reply Thu 7 Feb, 2019 01:50 pm
@neptuneblue,
neptuneblue wrote:

Is your life going to magically self-destruct over this?

Please don't tease us with a best case scenario.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  5  
Reply Thu 7 Feb, 2019 02:29 pm
She was just returning the attitude of the president in kind.
livinglava
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 7 Feb, 2019 04:14 pm
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:

She was just returning the attitude of the president in kind.

She claims to have been sincere, but her daughter said she isn't.

Maybe she is intentionally separating her explicit from implicit communication in order to have more of a certain kind of power.

Covert implicit communication can be very powerful and subversive to open democratic discourse.

After all, how can you respond to passive aggression if the aggressor denies it?

She might be onto a trump card for Trump and democracy in the same gesture. . . like killing two birds with one stone. She might even condescend her way up to the very top, wherever that is.
RABEL222
 
  3  
Reply Thu 7 Feb, 2019 07:13 pm
@livinglava,
Could you or someone else redo this post in English?
livinglava
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 8 Feb, 2019 06:29 am
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:

Could you or someone else redo this post in English?

It's in English. You have to know the meaning of the words and understand a little bit about communication and cultural power.

When you use sarcasm or otherwise say or gesture one thing while meaning something different, it separates implicit from explicit meanings.

That allows you to lie explicitly while communicating implicit meanings on another level. As long as you are lying with your explicit meaning, you prevent the other person from responding to your implicit meanings.

So if Pelosi is clapping sarcastically, people can ask her why she was anti-clapping Trump's speech, but then she could just lie and say she was clapping sincerely, thus deflecting discussion.

If she was honest, she would stand there and boo Trump and cat-call him, etc. but she's too polite for that.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Feb, 2019 07:26 am
@livinglava,
You are being ridiculous.

- I don't think this matters, but technically I don't think her applause fit the definition of the word "sarcasm". I think it was more "ironic".... again I don't see anything wrong with sarcasm as sarcasm, so this is just a technical point.

- Everyone in the room knows exactly how Pelosi feels about Trump. Her "sarcasm" (even if it was sarcasm) isn't deception, it is a perfectly valid way for her to communicate her feelings.

- Pelosi's clap for Trumps role in electing women was her appropriate... Trump gave her the one thing that she wants in life; her gavel. Booing would have been ridiculous.

- Sarcasm is a valid form of communication that has been used throughout our history. Our founding fathers used it to oppose the British. Jefferson and Hamilton used it in their little political struggle. Trump uses sarcasm all the time, this is not one of the things for which I criticism him.

It is a form of communication and perfectly appropriate in a political context.

Real Music
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2019 02:17 am
@livinglava,
Quote:
what does this say about contemporary culture and the place of negativity and even hate in how we respond to others whose ideas and opinions differ from our own?

Ask Donald Trump, since what you are saying is actually a description of his constant hate, negativity, and divisiveness.

Yes indeed, Donald Trump is truly one of the most racist,
the most hateful,
the most negative,
and the most divisive
individual this country has seen in many decades.
Real Music
 
  2  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2019 04:47 am
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is riding a wave of woman power, progressive power and policy power after besting Trump in the Government Shutdown and has now gone viral on social media for pointedly “clapping back” at the hypocrisy of Trump opposing the “politics of revenge”. Center for American Progress’ Daniella Gibbs Leger tells Ari Melber that Pelosi is “masterful at this game” and knows how to “convey a message” through a “little gesture”.

Published February 6, 2019
livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2019 09:48 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

- Everyone in the room knows exactly how Pelosi feels about Trump. Her "sarcasm" (even if it was sarcasm) isn't deception, it is a perfectly valid way for her to communicate her feelings.

If Pelosi is pro-socialist and she therefore dislikes Trump making statements against it in the state of the union address, why not just say nothing or shake her head in response to the speech? That would convey a more sincere meaning.

Clapping insincerely implies that she has to obey some social rule requiring that she clap despite her dissenting meaning/feelings for what she is responding to. If you don't like what he said, don't clap. Shake your head, scowl, frown, or do whatever actually sincerely expresses your thoughts and feelings in that situation at that moment.

Quote:
- Pelosi's clap for Trumps role in electing women was her appropriate... Trump gave her the one thing that she wants in life; her gavel. Booing would have been ridiculous.

Ok, so don't boo then. Problem solved.

Quote:
- Sarcasm is a valid form of communication that has been used throughout our history. Our founding fathers used it to oppose the British. Jefferson and Hamilton used it in their little political struggle. Trump uses sarcasm all the time, this is not one of the things for which I criticism him.

It is a form of communication and perfectly appropriate in a political context.

Maybe it is appropriate for incidental flamboyance here and there, but sincere expression is more conducive to democratic civil discourse because it invites clear discussion instead of playing with meanings in a way that is less than clear and explicit.

0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2019 09:53 am
@Real Music,
Real Music wrote:

Quote:
what does this say about contemporary culture and the place of negativity and even hate in how we respond to others whose ideas and opinions differ from our own?

Ask Donald Trump, since what you are saying is actually a description of his constant hate, negativity, and divisiveness.

Yes indeed, Donald Trump is truly one of the most racist,
the most hateful,
the most negative,
and the most divisive
individual this country has seen in many decades.


If you want to discuss racism, hate, negativity, etc. you ought to do that instead of tossing around accusations that do nothing to elucidate anything in a way that could help the public deal with these problems. Accusations and ridicule only stoke the cultures of hate and negativity. If you and others keep that kind of negativity/hate against negativity/hate up, you're going to see that it stokes a fire that burns so hot it leads to war levels of violence and destructions. Then you can go on blaming and ridiculing instead of trying to achieve peace and healing, but the fire is going to be out of control. You need to foresee this and start working toward constructive analysis of these social-cultural problems so that they can be de-escalated instead of escalated further. Otherwise, you are as complicit as Trump or anyone else you want to blame and ridicule.
 

 
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