Should there be a school policy of no zeros?

Policy of no zeros might be something to consider for elementary school and the lower grades for middle school but definitely not high school.

If a high school student is consistently NOT doing her or his homework, an intervention might be needed to see if there are problems existing at home that may effect/affect the student and their assignments.

As for a work around or loophole for teachers to get around the no zero policy? Why couldn't they just grade missing projects/unfinished assignments a grade of 1/100?

But ultimately, the teacher should be trying to figure out why students are missing out on homework assignments on a semi/regular basis (and not assuming it's automatically laziness as the cause).

Plus homework assigned for the sake of busy work should ultimately be audited and removed from the class entirely?

It is a stupid policy, but it is mathematically irrelevant. If 50 is the lowest grade, than 50 is a Zero.

If I were a teacher and felt it was worth making a point, I would give people who complete the assignment a 150. Or I might grade on an 100,000 point scale (perfect is 100,000), no work is 50.

If I wanted to stay, I would probably decide that it isn't worth nfighting, or I would quit and make a lot more money with less aggravation being a software engineer.

My experience is that schools (at least my daughter's) is scaling back on homework - they seem to be against busy work as you state. It also has been typically lower percentage of their grade.

This particular situation the teacher was stating - was a two week project - some students did not do the project so she gave them a zero. The school policy is no zeros the lowest grade you can give is 50%.

It does not specify if she followed up with the students or anything like that - but do you think there should be a blanket statement that you can not grade someone a zero if they did nothing? You still have to give them a 50% no matter the situation?

I think it is the opposite, it is very mathematically relevant because of the standard scale. It is almost impossible to recover from a zero because the expected number is in the 70-100 range. Three perfect papers and one zero is still an 67 which was an F in my day and IMO it doesn't make sense that a student that can score three perfect scores is failing. A 50 is a significant hit, but recoverable. We place way to much value in the meaning of zero. As Max pointed out, it is all relative and if 50 is the lowest score, then it is not "partial credit". It also takes out some of the teacher variability. Some teachers allow makeup work or except late work with a penalty, some have a more strict policy and that's fine, but a zero is almost a death penalty and I don't see the educational value in that.

It also doesn't make sense that a teacher would be fired for being ignorant of this particular rule. Easy enough to point out the rule and redo the grades. I wonder if there isn't something else there.

I was suggesting that I would grade from 50-150. Then the expected number would be in the 120-150 range. It all works. In truth, when I was a teacher, I had a different way to score the homework grades anyway based on a number of points you earned; it wasn't a percentage. Each teacher has a way to deal with this.

I don't think administrators should screw with grading rubrics. Each teacher has his own personality, and his own curricular goals. It is stupid any administration to make any rule on how teacher's calculate grades.

There is also a big difference between a "paper" and a homework assignment.

In most classes, if you miss a paper, you are going to fail the course as you should.

You almost have to see what the entire school policy is - it is tough to ever had such a blanket statement.

Most teachers (not all) but most I have dealt with have and should have some flexibility. In other words most teachers do not just do an average and say like in your example the kid has a 67 average that is that. If there was a zero and the kid aced the other two then it is more likely the teacher would up the grade and discount the zero.

Also, typically in school unlike college you have alot of items you are being graded on so a zero is not likely to zing you. My daughter had at least one zero if not more because she forgot to hand in her homework - she is not very organized and I have been on her about that. She has never gotten below a B overall in her grades.

Homework, or lack thereof, shouldn't be graded in the same manner as tests and the like, and should certainly not weigh in on the final score. By doing so, it will allow people who are smart enough to get high scores for a certain test to neglect their homework and still score a pass. That's not the sort of attitude you want to teach students in school.

Rather, make a separate system: check the homework of three random students each lesson. If they didn't do the homework, give them a strike. If any student goes up to three strikes during the semester/trimester, they are out. Out as in, an automatic fail for the course.
As a teacher, you could demand all students hand in their homework assignment a couple of times, just to make sure no one plays the odds (if they have no strikes, just neglect homework until they have two or some such).

Now, if someone fails a course due to not making their homework, even if they get an A for the tests and exams overall, it'll show up on their final results. I think it's relevant for a college to know if a student has not just the brains to excel in a given course(as reflected by their grade), but is also willing to put in the work to master the course(as reflected by the homework pass or fail).

Just my idea.

Sure, if we change the paradigm then everything works out. That's exactly what system here did, it changed the scoring to 50-100. 50 is the minimum score. You say it is stupid for the administration to make rules on how teachers grade, but every administration does this. The 0-100 point scale (50-100 in this case) is from the administration, the ranges for A, B, etc are from the administration. This is a benefit to students, teachers and parents because it provides uniformity. You wouldn't want one teacher to grade on a 1-5 scale and another to grade on a Unacceptable, Needs improvement, Satisfactory, Excellent scale in the same system. It would be confusing to everyone. If teachers did grade on a 1-5 scale (for F, D, C, B, A), no one would have a hard spot with a teacher assigning a 1 to someone who didn't turn in a paper. Getting a 50 on a 50-100 scale is the same. People seem bent that 50 is "partial credit". If the scale is 50-100 it is not, it is the lowest grade you can get.

PS. A score of 50 is exactly the same as a score of 1 on a 1-5 scale where 1=50-59, 2=60-69, 3=70-79, 4=80-89 and 5=90-100.

Most teachers agree with this. I am no longer a teacher, so I can say openly what most teachers say in private.

The biggest obstacle to a child's education is their parents.

I taught physics in a public high school in a wealthy district. The kids are born with the feeling that they deserve to be successful, without much effort. Given their upper middle class White backgrounds, they are probably right. But it wasn't at all good for their education.

My worst day teaching was when a high school senior passed in a final project that she had clearly copied off the internet. It was on on topic (wave resonance) that would have given graduate students trouble... it took me 5 minutes of googling phrases to find the original. I printed it out, and handed back her project with a zero.

What do you know. The parents went ape **** that I had given their perfect little daughter a zero. I showed them their daughter's paper, and the website she had copied. I tried to calmly explain that she got a zero on this project, which hurts... but that this was a learning experience... plagiarize in college and you will be expelled. They would have nothing of it.

They were undeterred. They went to my boss. They went to the principal. I don't know if they went anywhere else. After three stressful meetings were my decision was questioned at every point, the principal sided with me (my boss was always supportive). But that was the experience that made me decide that I didn't have the patience for a teaching career.

Teachers spend a lot of time thinking about grading. They know the objectives of their class and they know what the students need to master and how they can master it. You set up your grading system to match the goals of the course. If you are teaching students how to right a paper, and they don't write the assigned papers, they might as well not take the class. If you are teaching Physics, the students need to to their lab reports and their problem sets.

Teachers also work to make the system reasonable. They give extra work, sometimes erase certain grades (which is a way to help kids who forget a homework).

But the students have to do the work... The teachers are responsible for running the classroom, setting the objectives, motivating, cajoling and setting consequences for the students. It is a difficult job without whiny parents questioning their every move.

Teacher are responsible for getting your kids to do their work. They don't tell you how to get your kids to do their chores, you shouldn't tell them how to manage their classrooms.

If you are bitching about your child's teachers, you are hurting your child's education. Let the teachers teach.

I can see that being a pain in the butt. And I can also understand as I live in a similar town - we moved here in part for the school system. There are some very wealthy neighborhoods in our town.

My daughter had a hard time last year because of what you are describing those sorts of kids that are "privileged" and have that attitude - it was to the point she was begging me to home school her and we had to meet with an adjustments counselor.

Anyway since then she has made some good friends and is very happy. Almost all of the teachers are really good and engaged with the students - so we are fortunate in that respect.

I remember one mom saying her daughter was having difficulty writing her college statement - she said her daughter was complaining because she never had any adversity and never had to struggle so she didn't know what to write about.

This made me chuckle!

Edit: I think you could actually make a good college essay about that. You could talk about privilege... and it could be a unique take on the topic with some social importance. If I were a college admission counselor, I would mark a self-aware essay on this topic highly.

But this debate is not about that, right? There may be some parents in here somewhere, but the school board decided the scoring was to be from 50-100 for all classes and the teacher wanted to assign something different. If she wanted to assign a -5000, would that be ok?

Of course it wouldn't - but I would expect the schools to hire a teacher that would have the right qualifications - including common sense. In any position you need to hire people who meet the qualifications and abilities of the job. If they do not have these qualifications or skills you do not hire them or if they do not have the common sense that a teacher should have to make appropriate judgments, then you fire them. Teachers are professionals and you handicap them when you have stringent rules.

Maybe this teacher is trying to also teach the students that if you do zero work you get zero credit - a life lesson that is more important than the failing grade.

When my daughter got a zero for not doing her homework - I didn't beg the teacher to give her full credit for missing it - I told my daughter to provide the homework a day late and hopefully she will then get half credit. She needs to find a way to be organize so she does not forget to hand in her work And that in the future if she misses a homework she will lose a privilege.

How would she learn that there are repercussions for not doing not what you are assigned on time?

Don't get hung up on the number zero. A 50 on a 50-100 scale is the same as a zero on a 0-100 scale. If the teacher decided to give your daughter a negative 100 on a 0-100 scale instead of the zero she deserved, would that be right?

The worst thing in the world is to have the sole responsibility to do a task without having the authority to make the decisions. It is as frustrating as hell, and it is stupid from the standpoint of an organization.

The person with the responsibility should be the one making the decisions.

I didn't read the handbook, but this rule on its own is meaningless. The teacher will set up the grading policy... or do they ban multipliers or extra-credit too? Either this is a meaningless bureaucratic rule that can be adjusted, or it is part of a draconian system where grading is dictated from above by a school board that has probably never been in the classroom.

Teachers can come up with a grading scheme, that meets their professional goals and is appropriate for their topic, classroom, and professional experience. There is no need, or reason, for an administration to dictate in this way. Parents and School Boards and everyone else need to realize that what happens in a classroom depends on the teacher, and the teacher should be empowered to make the best decisions.

Sure, school boards do have the power to jamb stupid rules down teacher's throats. And, sure... teachers are employed by school boards and should comply to whatever dictates come from on high.

But it is frustrating. This is the reason I quit teaching. The engineering world is far more rational, with better pay and far less stress.

Your position is that regardless of the school policy, teachers can use any system of grading they want and their freedom to do that trumps any desire by the school system to provide uniform feedback to students and parents?

But it isn't - it is a percent not a point scale:

"... written in red in the school’s handbook, stating, “NO ZERO’S – LOWEST POSSIBLE GRADE IS 50%.”

It is a percent which is much different than a point scale as you said. 50 on what you are saying is different than a 50%. In your example that student who did nothing would need to have 75 points that would equate to 50%.

I find this a little insulting to teachers. I didn't use "any system of grading I wanted".

Teachers are professionals, they are responsible for what happens in their classroom. The teachers know the students, understand the curriculum and are responsible for providing productive learning environment. Having political officials who have never been in a classroom set a uniform policy is ridiculous.

Your claim is unrealistic anyway, unless the school board is going to impose a complete system for marking papers, assignments etc... teachers develop their own anyway according to the needs of their students.

It is a stupid policy. I am not saying that teachers shouldn't be fired by autocratic bureaucrats when they don't follow their policies.

Rather, in my humble opinion, they should quit and get a job where they will be treated with respect.