Colin Kaepernick's Nike deal

@oralloy,

Perseverating on phrases doesn't make them true.

You have lied.

@ehBeth,

ehBeth wrote:

Perseverating on phrases doesn't make them true.

That's the really neat thing about the truth. It doesn't need to be "made" true.

The truth is true on its own merits. No one needs to do anything to make it true.

ehBeth wrote:

You have lied.

No I haven't. All I've done is point out facts again.

The problem with facts is, they have the same effect on liberals that sunlight has on vampires.

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

What you are describing has nothing to do with "rights"

Exactly Finn,

When it comes to the options the NFL owners have in responding to the protests... it doesn't come down to rights. It comes down to the consequences that they will face (most of which are not legal consequences).

The NFL players have quite a bit of power in this situation, and they are using it for a cause that they feel is important. Many of the NFL players have personal stake in this game. Most African American men have personal experience with police practices they feel are deeply unfair.

The question of whether the owners have the ability to prevent these protests from happening probably won't be resolved in court. The players have the upper hand, and the owners will have to work on an agreement.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

You are full of crap Oralloy. You should notice two things...

1) You are the only conservative we are accusing of lying (because you are the only person making this ridiculous claim that people here want to murder police).

2) There are no conservatives who have jumped up to defend you. Your claim is so outrageous that the intelligent conservatives here are ignoring you (and probably hoping you will just shut up).

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

You are full of crap Oralloy.

I notice your complete failure to challenge the fact that when someone calls for self defense against a black attacker to be punished as murder, they are calling for people to be unable to defend themselves when a black person tries to murder them.

maxdancona wrote:

You should notice two things...
1) You are the only conservative we are accusing of lying (because you are the only person making

I'm the one who is pointing out truths that you don't want to hear.

maxdancona wrote:

this ridiculous claim that people here want to murder police).

When someone calls for self defense against a black attacker to be punished as murder, they are calling for people to be unable to defend themselves when a black person tries to murder them.

maxdancona wrote:

2) There are no conservatives who have jumped up to defend you. Your claim is so outrageous that the intelligent conservatives here are ignoring you (and probably hoping you will just shut up).

I am perfectly capable of defending the truth all by myself.

I don't require support from other people. Merely having all of the facts on my side is more than enough.

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@maxdancona,

The only legal rights the players have are those afforded to them by their individual and collective contracts.

I've no problem with the matter being resolved through negotiation or in court. What I do have a problem with is how this is being described as a "free speech" issue. It simply is not.

If the players have any "right" to ignore the directions of their employers it is because their employers granted them such a right through contract. If that's the case, shame on the employers.

The league has botched this matter since the beginning and as a result, they are losing viewership and revenue. If they have calculated that eventually, it will blow over, they are mistaken. I know people who are huge football fans who now refuse to watch the games.

The negative reaction to "take a knee" isn't, in the main, based on antipathy for BLM, although given the past antics of that organization, it would not be surprising if it were. The primary issue is the politicization of sports, a pastime in which Americans seek refuge from the chaos of everyday life.

The players have a great many other ways available to them to register their views on the subject. I see no evidence whatsoever that these demonstrations are having any sort of positive impact.

If as you say, the players have the upper hand, then it's all the more reason why Nike's ad campaign is a sham and Kaepernick is nothing like a hero.

2 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

Quote:

The only legal rights the players have are those afforded to them by their individual and collective contracts.

I am pretty sure NFL players have additional rights under employment law, but I am not a lawyer and these issues will be settled in the courts. And, in a legal sense, I think you have a point about what "free speech" means.

Quote:

If the players have any "right" to ignore the directions of their employers it is because their employers granted them such a right through contract. If that's the case, shame on the employers.

This is where I think you have it wrong. You are speaking as if the employers (the NFL owners in this case) have all the power and can tell their employees to just do as they are told. That isn't how the real world works; at least when you are dealing with high skill employees.

The employees, in this case, have quite a bit of power. They can tell the owners to stick their policy. The owners don't have much of an option here... without these elite players they don't have a very good product.

So I would reverse what you said... the employers don't have the "right" to ignore the desire of their employees because their employees granted them such a right through contract.

The NFLs have a good deal of leverage, which is why the NFL owners overstepped.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Quote:

I know people who are huge football fans who now refuse to watch the games.

I am curious how big this number is. I google for NFL ratings... and found the typical partisan arguments on both sides (a set of statistics showing NFL rating tanking, and another set showing the NFL is doing better than ever).

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

I obviously don't know for certain but I can tell you that I know quite a few people who I never would have believed might give up on football, who have.

If there were no financial consequences to this issue the NFL would be ignoring it entirely and that is not the case.

1 Reply

Quote:

The players have a great many other ways available to them to register their views on the subject. I see no evidence whatsoever that these demonstrations are having any sort of positive impact.

This is an interesting question.

First of all, a large number of NFL players are African-American men who grew up in economically depressed neighborhoods. They are now very wealthy, but they are in a position to speak out for a group of people who generally don't have very much of a voice. It is appropriate for African-American players to speak very loudly on an issue that impacts them directly.

If this protest keeps the issue of Police mistreatment of African-American men in front of the public, then it has been successful.

If this protest reaches African-American men who aren't NFL stars... encouraging them to get politically active and to speak out, then it has been successful.

The ultimate question is this-- What protest would be appropriate that you wouldn't ignore?

2 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

If there were no financial consequences to this issue the NFL would be ignoring it entirely and that is not the case.

You and I agree that the NFL has botched this completely. They deserve whatever financial consequences based only on their idiocy.

Any attempts for them to manhandle these players, who are the elites n their field with skills that are very difficult to replace, is simply foolish. They are going to have to work with the players.

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The NFL is not a single employer either... they are a cartel. Each team hires players.

The most amusing resolution to this would be if each team could decide their own policies. The obvious result is that the African American players would likely choose to play in a team that supported their protests... there would be White teams and Black teams (probably based on the market they represent).

And if teams that are more friendly to African-American players started dominating the league, that would lead to a very interesting discussion (it wouldn't be fun being a Cowboys fan in that world).

I am sure that the NFL would never let that happen (although it would be funny)

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

And they are taking the easy way out by taking the knee if they do nothing else.

This protest has not kept the issue of Police mistreatment of African-American men in front of the public.

Quote:

If this protest reaches African-American men who aren't NFL stars... encouraging them to get politically active and to speak out, then it has been successful.

That's possible, but I doubt it.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

Quote:

there would be White teams and Black teams

Idiotic

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Quote:

And they are taking the easy way out by taking the knee if they do nothing else.

I don't think you are in a position to judge them for that.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Quote:
And they are taking the easy way out by taking the knee if they do nothing else.

I don't think you are in a position to judge them for that.

Oh no? Who do you feel you are in a position to judge since you do it all the time here in this forum?

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

If this protest keeps the issue of Police mistreatment of African-American men in front of the public, then it has been successful.

Self defense against murderers is hardly mistreatment.

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Quote:

Since the announcement on Labor Day, Nike stock has surged 5 percent, adding a whopping $6 billion to the company’s market value, according to CBS News. That’s after Nike’s stock initially fell 3 percent after the announcement.

Overall, Nike’s stock is up 36 percent on the year, making it the highest performing company on the Dow Jones Industrial index 30 blue-chip stocks.

So given how much this has added to Nike's bottom line, does this mean that more companies will jump on board?

1 Reply

@engineer,

I suspect that "being in favor of murdering police officers" will only appeal to a certain demographic.

0 Replies

Colin Kaepernick's Nike deal

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