The fall of the house of Trump.

McGentrix,

How do you look at what is happening in Trump's inner circle, with Jeff Sessions, Weisselberg, Cohen and Manafort and not see Trump's administration crumbling. I am curious, at what point do you admit that things are falling apart? What has to happen?

This hasn't happened since Nixon.

Not happened since Nixon? What about President Clinton’s censure? Did that never exist?

While some prominent Democrats distanced themselves from him, you never saw his personal lawyers and members of his inner circle turning on him. And his popular support was higher than 40% as well.

He wasn't "censured"; he was impeached.

Manafort? Nothing that has happened to him, legally, has anything to do with Trump other than from Mueller trying his hardest to damage him so he would provide false evidence against Trump. Only reason he is on trial to begin with is because of the Trump witch hunt. You have to agree with that yes?

Cohen has no evidence Trump actually did or said. His word against the president's. That is a go no where situation and again, the only reason he is talking is because he has been threatened with long jail time etc. Mueller is using the threat of what is basically torture, to get people tp talk against the President. Once Cohen broke attorney-client privilege, his word became meaningless. He is basically saying whatever Mueller tells him to say.

Weisselberg is an unknown. Who knows if Mueller will get him to lie for him.

Despite all the Mueller antics that have produced ZERO evidence of Trump/Russian collusion this has happened...

• Appointed Supreme Court Justice Neil Gorsuch and more than 75 other constitutionally sound federal judges, 30 of which are serving.

• Reinstated an expanded Mexico City Policy blocking foreign aid from being used for abortions.

• Cracked down on illegal immigration and “sanctuary cities.” As Attorney General Jeff Sessions put it: “The lawlessness, the abdication of the duty to enforce our laws, and the catch and release policies of the past are over.”

• Issued an order killing two federal regulations for every new one. In actuality, 16 were cut for every new one in his first year, saving billions.

• Engineered a historic tax cut that will save money for more than 80 percent of American households.

• Withdrew the U.S. from the Paris Climate Agreement, ending the threat of U.S. governance by international bureaucrats.

• Reversed onerous Obama environmental rules that gave the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) ham-handed authority to destroy the coal industry and abrogate landowners’ rights.

• Kick-started America’s energy sector by curtailing regulations, facilitating the Keystone XL Pipeline and opening up vast federal areas to oil and gas exploration.

• Presided over an economic and stock market boom, lowered unemployment and brought manufacturing jobs back to America from overseas.

• Rebuilt the nation’s military, destroyed ISIS and faced down North Korea’s “Rocket Man.”

• Issued an order enforcing First Amendment protections for religious liberty.

• Restored the freedom of military chaplains to espouse biblical morality, and essentially reversing Mr. Obama’s transgender military policy.

• Revoked the Education Department’s order that public schools allow gender-confused males access to girls’ restrooms and locker rooms.

• Cracked down on sex trafficking. President Trump signed a law allowing states to move against sex-ad Internet sites, and the Justice Department on April 6 seized and shut down Backpage.com, which carried ads for prostitution, including trafficked children.

• Overhauled the mismanaged Veterans Administration and giving veterans more health care choices.

• Replaced Obamacare incrementally, beginning with a repeal of the individual mandate.

• Imposed sanctions on Venezuela’s socialist dictatorship and revising Mr. Obama’s deals with communist Cuba.

• Recognized Jerusalem as Israel’s capital and repairing damage that Mr. Obama did to the U.S.-Israel relationship.

• Worked with Central American nations to crack down on MS-13 gangs.

What I am specifically talking about in this thread is the fracturing of Trump's inner circle. I am taking this fracturing as a sign that the Trump administration is a disaster that will end very badly.

This never happened during the Clinton impeachment.

Well McGentrix, I get that you are a fan of Trump. I disagree with most of the points you make about his "successes"... but that isn't the point of this thread.

I love your brash confidence for Trump, but it is getting ridiculous as more facts come out. You seem to want to label any evidence against Trump as false evidence.

First of all, you get a few things factually wrong.

1. We don't know what evidence Mueller has about collusion. It seems clear to me that he is making progress (as information comes out). Some time in the not too distant future he will release a report. Then we will know what evidence there is.

2. You are wrong about attorney-client privilege (according to independent legal experts). I am assuming that you don't have a law degree (I don't either). But, they do.

3. Mueller is not using the "threat of torture" (this claim is rather ridiculous). What he is doing is what prosecutors always do. Offering plea deals is a normal part of pretty much every high level case.

There, now I would like to ask the question again, since you are clearly a Trump fan.

If Trump were guilty of impeachable offenses (such as collusion, or election corruption) at what point do you accept this? Would you ever be able to accept that there was enough evidence to impeach Trump?

This witch hunt seems to be finding witches.

Well, no — Manafort was instrumental in bringing Russian operatives into Trump's campaign.

You don't know what evidence Cohen might have. We already know he taped a telephone conversation with Trump. He could have all kinds of evidence.

This is a commonly used tactic — and no, it's nothing like "torture") and there would be a lot of high level criminals walking free if it weren't used in some cases.

No he didn't. Here, let Chris Christie explain it for you:



You don't know that. You're not part of the investigative team. You don't know what they're talking about. You don't even know what you're talking about.

Copying something from the partisan Washington Times and trying to foist it off as factually objective is pretty hollow:

"constitutionally sound federal judges" = conservative ideologues governing from the bench

"blocking foreign aid from being used for abortions" = preventing women from accessing needed medical procedures

"Cracked down on illegal immigration" = and had to back off in the face of criticism

"Engineered a historic tax cut that will save money for more than 80 percent of American households+ = added trillions to the national debt (he "engineered" nothing)

"ending the threat of U.S. governance by international bureaucrats" = there was no threat because all measures were voluntary — and the threat of a warming climate is still there

"Reversed onerous Obama environmental rules" = insured that air and water pollution will continue unabated

"Kick-started America’s energy sector by curtailing regulations" = rewarded the energy corporations who backed his candidacy

"Presided over an economic and stock market boom, lowered unemployment' = economic trends which had already begun during the recovery continued

"Rebuilt the nation’s military, destroyed ISIS and faced down North Korea’s “Rocket Man" = he did none of those things; you don't "rebuild the nation's military" in two years. He simply increased military spending for questionable programs and "Rocket Man" (childish terminology) has yet to disarm

"Issued an order enforcing First Amendment protections for religious liberty" = the opposite is true; he weakened the establishment clause and legalized discrimination against citizens based on religious belief

"Restored the freedom of military chaplains to espouse biblical morality" = a total nothing-burger that looks good to the evangelical lobby

"Revoked the Education Department’s order that public schools allow gender-confused males access to girls’ restrooms and locker rooms." = Fear tactics which exploit the ignorance of his base

"Overhauled the mismanaged Veterans Administration and giving veterans more health care choices" = Fired a competent director and began moves to privatize veterans' care

" Replaced Obamacare incrementally, beginning with a repeal of the individual mandate." = Nothing was "replaced" — he's simply working to destroy the ACA without offering anything as a replacement

"Imposed sanctions on Venezuela’s socialist dictatorship and revising Mr. Obama’s deals with communist Cuba" = He should be working to improve relations with Cuba

"Recognized Jerusalem as Israel’s capital and repairing damage that Mr. Obama did to the U.S.-Israel relationship" = undercut any hope of a Mideast peace deal

"Worked with Central American nations to crack down on MS-13 gangs" = totally overblown fear campaign meant to enhance his anti-immigration stance with his base

Revisit this silly list a few years from now and see if it doesn't make you squirm in embarrassment.

Do you allow for the possibility that ANY of these people could be telling the truth?

You’re right. It’s like a pack of hyenas, nipping at ...some big animal...until they wear it out and make it lunch.

It is a spectacle.

I think you might have received fewer down votes, McG, if you hadn't been so studied in your fatuousness.

The bad end has already occurred. The indicators are crystal clear (debatable whether or not that it was already clear) that the US election process is fatally and tragically flawed. With the ascension of Von Trump, democracy has been dealt a crushing blow. It’s future hangs in the balance. Democracy needs a new fresh face.

What democracy? The US only has ever had a murderous kleptocracy.

I don't think I agree with this Ragman. The US will survive the Trump presidency. I am not even sure I would say that the US election process failed (there was a large portion of voters who supported Trump over Hillary, and the voters matter in a democracy whether they are right or wrong).

You are seeing the institutions of a mature democracy; the free press, the right to protest, the courts and congress*, acting to protect our system of government.

(* yes, I think congress as an institution is pushing back against Trump even as the Republicans make political calculations to dither.)

You must have gotten an A+ in US propaganda 101, max.

The terms are not mutually exclusive.

What is so disturbing is that the anti-Trumpism absolutely eschews any acknowledgment of the POVs and interests represented by the administration. E.g. trafficking and trade are issues that many people want to deal with but it is clearly against global economic interests to stop the massive flows of lucrative illegal substances and human capital back and forth from south of the border and other areas of the world. The global business community clearly sees the US as a cog in a machine which must play its part and not assert any will to independence, and it's so disturbing that so many people would tolerate suppression of dissent in this way.

What happened to the vision for a global democratic and free community of voluntary participants? When did it become standardized protocol to chastise dissent against the 'global world order?' Are we going through a reversal of the US war of independence where the reigns of the empire were thrown off in order to go it alone? Is the rejection of Trump the symbol of rapprochement between global capitalism and the US as a fully-submitting subjugate of it?

You imply that the world outside the US is run by saints. Don't you realize how much exploitation and corruption are going on globally?

So your defense of the US murderous kleptocracy of two plus centuries is to point at others who don't come remotely close to the two plus centuries of the US murderous kleptocracy. Folks who are even willing to murder their own and y'all protect and support this too.