Walter Hinteler wrote:
Fishin'
Chirac's tone really wasn't nice. However, I always think, not the candidates give the rules but the members.
My apologies, I didn't realize that becoming a member of the EU meant that countries had to give up their right to speak freely and state their views. It seems the "rule" is that they are only allowed to speak when they agree with the French view of the world.
Chirac's tone "wasn't nice"? lol He gets an F- in International diplomacy... With all the crying about Bush's actions he's never once come out and told other countries to "shut up".
his representatives have come very close to trying to tell canada to shut up. they have been unsuccessful to date. i'm not often a great fan of our prime minister, but i have been lately.
fishin'
Better this way than "You can be with or against us" and paying for the 'pro' some money.
What is wrong in economic assistance to the allies? USA and U.K. rendered economic assistance (weapons,munition, jeeps, food stuffs, etc.) to the USSR (the so called "Lend-lease Plan") during the WWII.
ehBeth
Isn't this a refreshing change in our boy. He had been such a disappointment after Trudeau (sort of a cowardly civil servant) but there's a hint of heroic in him now.
fishin
Chirac's arrogant statements were as stupid (and stupidly timed) as anything Rumsfeld has said, though of course Donald produces a new one pretty much each week.
The arguments above which seek to portray France as motivated by matters of pride and self-glory are a rhetorically helpful (or hopefully helpful) means of excusing America of precisely the same thing.
Interesting. Veerry interesting.
So Chirac pulled a Bush! Big deal, it is his Union and you got to get those new guys in line. I wonder what Bush and Rumps would have said? Probably called them Evil and bombed the hell out of'em. Gees, <sigh>
Actually, arrogance is seemly - not only in ugly cowboy Americans but French and all else! AStill, this War sucks and is immoral!!!!!!!!!!!
Word...
Don't criticize the French too hastily, they've known Nazi occupation lees than 60 years ago. That's not even a generation. So pardon them for hating the Bushist power grab over the Middle East.
By the way, the EU is nothing less but a United States in the works. What would Bush say if suddenly the state of California was against the war? 'They've missed a great opportunity to shut up?'
blatham wrote: fishin
Chirac's arrogant statements were as stupid (and stupidly timed) as anything Rumsfeld has said, though of course Donald produces a new one pretty much each week.
Perhaps.. But I haven't seen Rummy say them without any tact.
Quote:The arguments above which seek to portray France as motivated by matters of pride and self-glory are a rhetorically helpful (or hopefully helpful) means of excusing America of precisely the same thing.
The comments were nothing of the kind. That's an assertion with no basis on your part.
The "argument" is in pointing out the hypocrisy of slamming Bush and then sitting quietly while another world leader with even less tact comes out and says exactly what others claim Bush is allueding to. When Bush says it it's the end of the world as we know it. When Chirac says it it's just another blip.
wolf wrote:By the way, the EU is nothing less but a United States in the works. What would Bush say if suddenly the state of California was against the war? 'They've missed a great opportunity to shut up?'
When did Chirac become the head of the EU? Beyond that, since you've apparently missed it, several places within the US have rebuffed the Bush administration on several issues (including Homeland Security). None of them have been told to "shut up".
Found this on the web
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The Complete Military History of France:
Gallic Wars - Lost. In a war whose ending foreshadows the next 2000 years of French history, France is conquered by of all things, an Italian.
Hundred Years War - Mostly lost, saved at last moment by schizophrenic teenaged girl, who inadvertently creates The First Rule of French Warfare; "France's armies are victorious only when not led by a Frenchman."
Italian Wars - Lost. France becomes the first and only country to ever lose two wars when fighting Italians.
Wars of Religion - France goes 0-5-4 against the Huguenots
Thirty Years War - France is technically not a participant, but manages to get invaded anyway. Claims a tie on the basis that eventually the other participants started ignoring her.
War of Devolution - Tied. Frenchmen take to wearing red flowerpots as chapeaux.
The Dutch War - Tied
War of the Augsburg League/King William's War/French and Indian War - Lost, but claimed as a tie. Three ties in a row induces deluded Frogophiles the world over to label the period as the height of French military power.
War of the Spanish Succession - Lost. The War also gave the French their first taste of a Marlborough, which they have loved every since.
American Revolution - In a move that will become quite familiar to future Americans, France claims a win even though the English colonists saw far more action. This is later known as "de Gaulle Syndrome", and leads to the Second Rule of French Warfare; "France only wins when America does most of the fighting."
French Revolution - Won, primarily due the fact that the opponent was also French.
The Napoleonic Wars - Lost. Temporary victories (remember the First Rule!) due to leadership of a Corsican, who ended up being no match for a British footwear designer.
The Franco-Prussian War - Lost. Germany plays the role of drunk Frat boy to France's ugly girl home alone on a Saturday night.
World War I - Tied and on the way to losing, France is saved by the United States. Thousands of French women find out what it's like to not only sleep with a winner, but one who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly, widespread use of condoms by American forces forestalls any improvement in the French bloodline.
World War II - Lost. Conquered French liberated by the United States and Britain just as they finish learning the Horst Wessel Song.
War in Indochina - Lost. French forces plead sickness, take to bed with the Dien Bien Flu.
Algerian Rebellion - Lost. Loss marks the first defeat of a western army by a Non-Turkic Muslim force since the Crusades, and produces the First Rule of Muslim Warfare; "We can always beat the French." This rule is identical to the First Rules of the Italians, Russians, Germans, English, Dutch, Spanish, Vietnamese and Esquimaux.
War on Terrorism - France, keeping in mind its recent history, surrenders to Germans and Muslims just to be safe. Attempts to surrender to Vietnamese ambassador, fail after he takes refuge in a McDonald's.
French companies wish to continu their business relationships with Saddam.
Fishin' says: "Chirac's tone "wasn't nice"? lol He gets an F- in International diplomacy... With all the crying about Bush's actions he's never once come out and told other countries to "shut up"."
Fishin' - your ambassador here in Australia has, effectively, told our federal parliament to shut up, when it was debating whether or not to support the war in Iraq - to which Australian troops have been committed in a unilateral action by the prime Minister - because he didn't like the tone of the words of some people.
Even our toadying PM spoke up against THAT, saying that our parliament was free to debate as it wished, and would continue to do so.
Bush's spokespeople have been just as rude to France, Germany and even Belgium as Chirac has been to other countries.
They all get an F as far as I am concerned
that is a pretty tacky attack on France, au.
dlowan
France is no worse, I would concur, than are the Americans at this snooty thing, just the American version is a variant - snooty with a great big belt buckle, spitoon, money belt and a zeal to be downright neighborly, so neighborly, in fact, that borders get kind of foggy and maybe its your country and maybe it's theirs, like they say.
post scriptum
I will be happy to slag my own country, given any invitation. And when our PM's decisions effect anyone for more than three miles past Portage La Prairie, I hope you'll help me keep watch on him.
LOL! We have been cross with the French since they continued the US practice of testing their nuclear weaponry in our backyard when the US ceased.
Also - we have not quite got over their secret soldiers' blowing up the Greenpeace ship "The Rainbow Warrior" in New Zealand - murdering a crew member - and being released as heroes when France won the right for them to serve their long prison sentences in their homeland, speaking of foggy boundaries...
As I said, an F for all! Each country that can, has, I guess, its imperial phase....when, oh when, is our turn!?
Australia is on the list immediately after Canada and The Grand Duchy of Splazenburgen.
LOL...we could prolly conquer New Zealand without even half trying.....but.....
We needlessly alarmed all our neighbours by having our idiot PM come out in support of Bush's doctrine of pre-emptive return of fire, or whatever it was, they be keeping a wary eye on our pop guns and leaky submarines as we speak...
I realise we have strayed off topic- -France is doing what every other country is doing - looking after its perceived interests.
What a surprise.
Even if we take into consideration irony, then what would Australia conquer New Zealand for? The two countires could just unite peacefully into some federal state, something like United States of Oceania -- USO (in case, of course, their peoples and governments want to).
Exactly what has the U.S. ambassador to Australia supposed to have said to your parliment, Deb? I've heard this alluded to before, of course.
