Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2005 11:52 am
city in the Saone Valley East central France centre of lower Burgundy region
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,871 • Replies: 22
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plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2005 01:04 pm
Are you looking for the name of this city?

dijon?
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2005 01:31 pm
Chalon-sur-Saône, Tournus, Mâcon, and Villefranche are some major towns/cities along the Saône - besides Lyon, where the S. joins the Rhône River.

(Dijon lies at the confluence of the Ouche and Suzon rivers.)
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plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2005 01:55 pm
Wakter -- I don't know, off-hand, which cities are on the Saone. I didn't have a map at hand. Was just guessing in order to stimulate some conversation.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2005 01:58 pm
It's okay, we had some nice talking! Laughing

(Don't ever think, I knew those towns by heart!!!)
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plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2005 02:05 pm
Well, I was suspicious of the notation that Dijon is at the confluence of the Rhone and Suzon! I'm not unfamiliar with French geography: for many years, I had a map of southern France mounted on my wall in what I hoped would be a good luck charm. I thought if I looked at a place every day, that I would end up there. Didn't work.

Maybe, I should start a thread on the failure of the power of positive thinking.
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Francis
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2005 04:46 pm
Hey what are you talking about?!
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2005 04:54 pm
I suppose, we just had had small talk - because we didn't know what to talk about.
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Francis
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2005 04:57 pm
next time, let me in!
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2005 05:03 pm
Avec plaisir.
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plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jan, 2005 10:10 am
Francis -- You're already here!
What ever happened to the moderator?

Let's talk about places in France we want to visit. I wish to visit the small southern French town of Uzes, not because it has all those rarely used letters in its name but because when I was in grad school, I was assigned a book written by a 9th C woman who lived in Uzes whose name was Dhoudha. She was married to a minor nobleman in the court of, possibly, Louis the Fat, successor of Charlemagne, and was left at Uzes to run the family estate while her husband dallied at court and their son William was a political hostage. her book for that son is the traditional, "Mirror for Princes," the most famous of which is that speech of Polonius' from Hamlet that includes the phrase, "Never a Borrower nor a lender be."
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jan, 2005 10:23 am
Uzes is situated in that part of France, I don't know to well: the South and the Alps.


I'm rather sure that Louis the Pious was successor to Charlemagne, while Louis VI, a Capetian, was called "the Fat".

(But I can be dead wrong: I mix up the German kings frequently, not to talk about the French!)
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Francis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jan, 2005 11:58 am
Uzès is in the south of France, near Nîmes (département 30).

if that woman lived in the 9th C, the book was probably about Louis I the pious, a carolingian, and not Louis the Fat, a capetian.

Walter, with his usual accuracy, pointed it well.

For more, take a look in this site :
Uzès
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Francis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jan, 2005 12:02 pm
as for Dhoudha (Douda)

Maybe she was this woman :

Douda
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jan, 2005 12:05 pm
Speaking of all those bold, fat etc kings:

you've certainly been to the 'tombeaux' in St. Denis, I suppose: interesting that some of those deads [I know, no-one in there :wink:] are kind of German AND French kings.
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plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jan, 2005 01:08 pm
No, her name is spelled Dhoudha. May be wrong about the second H but not the first.

Uzes is an interesting town. Its inhabitants supported the Nazis is WWII. That is not a part that excites me but I do want to walk in Dhoudha's foot steps. Her book was written to and for her son William.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jan, 2005 01:21 pm
http://www.nimausensis.com/personnages/Dhuoda.jpg

Quote:
Dhuoda
Wife of Bernard, Duke of Septimania. The only source of information on her life is her "Liber Manualis" which was written for the education of her son William. The name Dhuoda which is indicated in the "Manual" is latinized by her as Dodana, Duodana, and Dhuodana; Dhuoda was a member of a noble family, and married, 24 June, 824, Bernard, son of St. William of Gellone, godson and favourite of King Louis the Pious, Duke of Septimania, and also, either at that time or a little later, Count of Barcelona. Her first son, William, was horn 29 November, 826, and the second, Bernard, 22 March, 841. The "Manual" was begun 30 November, 841, at Uzès (now Department of Gard), and completed 2 February, 843; She was then separated from both her husband and her two sons, William being at the Court of Charles the Bald, and Bernard having been taken away before baptism to his father in Aquitaine. Probably Dhuoda did not live long after completing her work, as she speaks of herself as weak and near death, expresses her sorrow at the thought that she will not see William in his manhood, and writes herself the epitaph which she desires him to engrave on her tomb. Thus she may have been spared the sorrow of knowing her husband's condemnation for rebellion (844), and the death of her two sons who were also killed, William in 850, and Bernard in 872, after wilfully disregarding their mother's good lessons. The "Manual", consisting of seventy-three chapters (not including the introduction, invocation, prologue, etc.), is an important document for general history and especially for the history of education; It was published by Bondurand in 1887 from a manuscript of the seventeenth century in the Bibliothèque Nationale, Paris, and from fragments of a manuscript of the Carlovingian epoch, found in the library of Nîmes. Before that date, only a few passages had been published by Mabillon and reproduced in Migne's "Patrology". it is a treatise on Christian virtues, revealing the author's remarkable qualities of heart and mind, her intense affection for her sons and her husband, notwithstanding the latter's intrigues at the Court (see Martin, Histoire de France, II, 386 sqq;); We find numerous quotations from Holy Scripture, allusions to Scriptural facts, and some references to profane writers. The expression is in some instances obscure and even incorrect from the point of view of classical latinity, but the many images, comparisons, and allegories, the use in some chapters of verse and acrostics, the beauty and nobleness of the thoughts, the earnestness and love of the writer which are manifest throughout the whole work, always keep the reader's interest alive. It was really a "honeyed beverage" which Dhuoda had prepared for her son: ?-

Istum [libellum] tibi et fratri, ut prosit, quod collegi festinans,
Velut mellifluum potum, favisque permixtum,
In cibum oris, ut degustes semper adhortor.
Source


Nice site (in French): LA PRINCESSE DHUODA en exil à Uzès en 840
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plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jan, 2005 01:28 pm
That's her. There is some thought that there was a third child, a girl. Her husband dallied with the Empress Judith.
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Francis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jan, 2005 02:04 pm
I didn't know this history's story.

For the kings at St Denis, you aren't really surprised, are you?
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jan, 2005 02:07 pm
No :wink:

But I really was surprised that such a nice place like the basilica could survive in such ... well, in such surroundings.
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