Learning music/piano

At this point in the thread I have to admit that I took a completely different path toward playing the piano. Now I don't recommend this for everyone but it got me where I wanted to be.
About seven years ago I got bored with playing bass and I decided to play guitar and piano instead.
Keep in mind that I had fiddled around with those instruments and knew the rudiments.
Luckily there was a tape loop machine that would slow "riffs" down without changing the key. I started learning different "riffs" and then putting them together.
I also realized that I would never be able to learn all the scales so I started playing everything in the simple keys: C,G,D and E by using the transpose button provided. If the song was in the key of B I would set the transpose at -1 and play in the key of C.
I studied the great rock& roll masters like Jerry Lee Lewis, Johnny Johnson and Leon Russell and especially New Orleans piano styles from Professor Longhair and Dr John.
It's rough and rudimentary but I think I bring a good sound to our band.
The same goes for my Telecaster playing...a lot of rhythm work and some 'riffs' to augment our lead player(who I swear is getting paid by the note)
I did the same thing with the harmonica and mandolin...the fiddle...I had to put that away...lol
Everyone has to find their own path to satisfaction in music, I'm content with the one I chose.

edited for duh spelling

Here's what I ended up buying:

Autodidactic Piano Software

MIDI controller (keyboard)

I chose super duper slow shipping (i.e. free) so it'll take a while for me to get it.

Hope you enjoy!!!

Ditto

Keep us informed on the progress ...and any questions...you know where to find me.

This thread looks like a good place for me to put my question. I'm thinking of buying a guitar for my soon-to-be 5-year-old son. He loves music and is constantly making and playing guitars from tissue boxes and rubber bands. I know he would love it and he's a bright and inquisitive child who could learn to play. BUT, I never learned how to play a musical instrument, which is something I've always regretted, and I can't read music. I don't think I'm ready to pay for private lessons, either. I can order lesson books online but I don't know if that's good enough.

I guess my question is, is it a good idea? Do you think it's possible for my son, and me by necessity, to learn from a book or video? Would it be better to buy him a toy guitar to see if he takes to it before buying him a real instrument? (Admittedly, I prefer a real instrument, but I don't really have a really good reason to.) How old were you when/if you learned to play a musical instrument?

Hmm, you might try a new thread, might get more responses that way.

Free Duck, by all means get him started as early as you can. However, a proper sized guitar would be the problem at his age. Unlike the violin which is small scaled and used by 6 year olds in the Suzuki method...I don't know if there's a guitar method and a small scale model that compares.
But in any case, launch the thread and see if we can get some opinions.
In my case, I was 12 before my hands were big enough to play an acoustic and I played the recorder and piano from the age of 9.

Thanks guys. Other thread is here http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=42524

I jumped off the cliff and ordered him one. There is a place just down town that gives lessons for one his age so I think that's what we'll do. Hell if they are not too expensive I might take some too.

I'm still interested in feedback though, so please do post to the other thread with any ideas.

I received them both last night and here's an update.

I'm glad I didn't get a bigger keyboard, the 61 key one above is already pretty big for my workspace.

The keyboard was plug and play with my computer (with XP no software is needed for it to function as a MIDI controller).

I discovered quickly that even so, no noise would come our unless I was running a software that would take the MIDI input from the keyboard and play the sounds. For a luddite description liken it to a computer keyboard.

You can plug it in and start typing but unless you have a text editor open no letters will appear on the screen.

I'm using the piano teaching software listed above for the playing.

Ok, back to the keyboard briefly. It comes with software and drivers. The drivers aren't needed unless you are running an ancient version of windows.

All in all it looks like a nice cheap deal and I'm happy, they keys feel a little bit wrong to me but I have no idea what right is. Maybe I expect it to have as little reisistance as a computer keyboard or somthing. I'll find a piano to compare it with someday.

I had a look at the software and it seemed uninteresting at best, and useless demos at worst.

Note: I reference the software that came with the keyboard here, not the "Teach me Piano Deluxe" software I am about to comment on, which I liked.

Ok, so I then installed the music teaching software. The use of software to learn was a good idea, otherwise I'd likely have done what I always do in front of a keyboard; close my eyes and just try to let beautiful music flow through me (of course it's just a god-awful racket as I pound away at the keys).

The software walks you through the software itself in basic lessons, which I didn't need but others may find handy.

It started me off with "middle C" and taught me C-G. The initial lessons alternate between learning by ear and learning by notes.

They give finger numbers for the notes which is very helpful in the begining, to the point that it's a crutch and I need to turn them off to force learning the notes.

I just started turning the finger numbers off beause they are keeping me from learning the notes.

Anywho, my first song was Ode to Joy, which I can play semi-fluidly after about an hour with the software.

I learned a bit about music notes, I learmed the "staff" a vague notion of what the "treble cleff" was as well as bars and movements (I am curious as to whether to call it "bar 5" or "movement 5" in case anyone wants to answer questions) and after a few brief (less than an hour total) sessions understand full notes vs half and quarter notes best.

They then started teaching me tempo and more.

I'm having a hell of a time with the notes (i.e. they don't immediately make sense to me) because of the fact that they are not so clearly separated (e.g. the C is on no line at all, below the others).

Anywho, this software looks really good, I'm at the very beginning but what I've seen is very well structured, and from my understanding features like being able to import MIDI's will make it extendable when I am more advanced.

I can't wait till I am on lessons that don't sound like phone keys and actually are melodic, where I am at is very boring but the software looks promising and I will work to get to a more fun stage.

In short this mini review is to inform people that a computer, MIDI controller keyboard and interactive software look to be a great way to learn if a human teacher is impractical.

I encourage anyone else who has wanted to learn to try.

this sounds so cool - let know how it continues to work - are there built-in speakers? or via PC? or external source?

Very cool, Craven. Sounds like you are working hard at this and the equipment & software is good for you. I am very impressed that you have played Ode to Joy. You need little successes like that. Good on ya and that is a nice piece of music to know.

You asked about bar 5 and movement 5. I've wondered about that for a while and think you are saying "movement" when what you really mean is "measure." That "V" in the figure below is the bar or bar line, as you probably know. That figure may explain the difference better than a lot of words; it shows one full measure and part of the next.



Every piece of music has several measures & each is divided from those next to it by a "bar" or "bar line." As for your question, you would say, "I'm going to start playing from the fifth measure, or from measure five," not, I'll start playing from the fifth bar. Except for the advanced music when the time signature changes in the midst of a piece, each measure will have the same number of musical counts or beats all the way through the entire piece. Say you're in 4/4 time, there are four beats to every measure. If you're in 3/4 time, there are three beats to a measure.

Middle C will always be that note dangling below the treble clef with the line through it... and it will be the same note with the line through it floating above the base clef. Once you get used to it, it can't be mistaken for something else. If you can think of that short line running through middle C as the connecting/implied line between the base and treble clef... well, that visualization might help.

The numbering that you say you've turned off will become important when your hand goes beyond the first five notes so I hope you turn it back on then. When you start doing scales and find there are eight notes in each octave and only five fingers on your hand... that's when you will truly learn to appreciate numbering.

It's fun hearing how you're doing. I hope you keep up the reports.

I explained it in the post you are asking about more extensively, but the MIDI controller just gives input to the computer.



I think you are right, when I skimmed the text I read it as "movement" and found it odd that a movement was so short. It must have been "measure".



Hmm, I think the software said something like your last sentence, but it was before they introduced measures so maybe it was just a explanatory step.



Does the beat tempo ever change? I hadn't noticed it from the practice so far but it seems to me like you just taught me that a measure has 4 beats, is that right?



What are the Clef's for? They just showed me the treble clef, said it was that symbol on the left and moved on. I think they might explain it later.



Why isn't there just a line for each of those notes? It'd be more distinctive.




I think I'd need to know more about the clefs for that to help. :-)



Will do, you have been very helpful, I don't know a thing about music so it's a big help.

Craven, you asked these questions... before I go to bed, I'll try to explain, but if I don't make sense... just say and I'll try again tomorrow.



Yes, the beat tempo may change, but it wouldn't in beginning music. The beat tempo is determined by the time signature (e.g. 4/4, 3/4) and it can change in the middle of a piece. When it does, a new time signature will be put on both the treble & base clefs and then you have to follow the new beat. The only example I can think of off-hand is Frank Zappa's Peaches en Regalia, which starts out in 4/4 march time, then goes into a 3/4 waltz time, and then back to a 4/4 march. For the first several weeks/months of lessons I sincerely doubt you'll see this.




There are two clefs... the Treble Clef is signified by a fancy "S" sort of symbol, and the Bass (pronounced base) Clef is signified by a fancy backwards "C" symbol. Almost always, with piano music, you'll have a combination of both together, the Treble on top with a little space, and then the Bass below. The notes in the Treble clef are played with your right hand, the Bass clef (in general) is played with your left hand.

With some other instruments, they only need on clef. A clarinet uses a treble clef, a bassoon uses a bass clef. The treble is for all the notes above middle C, the bass is for all the notes below middle C. (There are some ways around that to an extent... but don't worry about that now.)



Good question. Actually, since middle C is the only note to have a line that goes through it like that, most musicians think it is distinctive.

I think that you are probably only seeing the Treble Clef in the first few lessons. Usually in piano music the Treble and Bass are printed together... sort of like this (both of those notes printed are the same note, middle C... see the line going through the note? The bass clef whole note doesn't have a leg, the quarter note on the treble clef does.) and because I had to put these two together, they aren't exactly right, but they are pretty close.




I just noticed this graphic; maybe it will more easily show you the connection between the clefs and your keyboard:

Good class Auntie Piffka...I'm sitting here learning the rudiments that I skipped over in my zeal to perform.

Excellent lessons form Piffka


Another helpful hint: If you play until your fingers ache and your back gets stiff, you should know...that there's nothing wrong with that...it only means that you are addicted. :wink:

Is anybody else (besides me) spending more time with their piano since Craven started this thread?

I'm not sure my neighbors would thank you, but I'm having fun, "banging on the bongos like a chimpanzee."

Remembering rudiments too, good explanation, piff.

Thanks a heap piffka! I don't have anything to say right now as I haven't had time today to practice but will be asking a lot more as I progress.

No time to practice Craven?

We can't have that. Auntie Piff will rap your knuckles with a statuette of Beethoven.

I used to get different mini-busts of the great composers for performing at recitals...which I dreaded more than anything in this world.