10
   

Bigot? Racist? Something Else?

 
 
glitterbag
 
  2  
Reply Mon 10 Jul, 2017 09:14 pm
@Glennn,
Glennn wrote:

Quote:
So Glennn, did you check the rule book on what women can and cannot be permitted to think or do?

Indeed I did. Apparently, you were not out of line to ask a question. However, I was concerned for you wellbeing because you admitted to laughing out loud at what I had said. But then I remembered that we're not in Turkey . . . thank god.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/29/turkish-minister-women-laugh-loud-bulent-arinc


You did make me laugh out loud, I startled the dog. But thank God for the occasional flash of humor.....it's sorely lacking here. Then Snood said it was a great name for a punk rock band,he made me laugh again.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Mon 10 Jul, 2017 09:15 pm
@glitterbag,
glitterbag wrote:
I have a few questions that I would like to submit to a male A2K person so that it can be properly vetted and I can be advised on how not to offend the superior gender. Please help.


glitterbag wrote:

I know your antenna is alway up looking for more evidence that women are out of control and secret feminists who plot to take over the world, but for Christ sake, don't you ever take a breath?


This is why I enjoy your posts so much glitterbag. You are genuinely funny.

0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Mon 10 Jul, 2017 09:21 pm
@glitterbag,
This is rich coming from someone who has no qualms about generalizing about conservatives, Trump supporters, and anyone who doesn't agree with her.

0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  2  
Reply Mon 10 Jul, 2017 09:24 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Not really but blame me for anticipating your retort. There is no difference. I assume you have no problem controlling the body of a would be murderer, when "murder" meets your definition.

I know how badly you want to call abortion murder, but I'm afraid it doesn't meet the definition.
Quote:
The basis for my interpretation is years of debating this issue with Pro-choicers and almost always having to leave the field because of their raging emotional response. As I wrote, you may be different. I doubt it but I certainly accept the possibility.

I can believe that years of debating the issue has made you . . . gun shy. But you don't have to worry about me. I haven't screamed at anyone so far. Of course, I might be just lulling you into a sense of security so that when I finally burst into rage, it will have maximum effect. Just kidding. Or am I?
Quote:
It's just as "rational" a point of view to believe that a fetus is a human. ?

And you are welcome to your version of rationality. What more do you want?
Quote:
Have you had kids? If you have, were you irrational to call the developing fetus in your womb a baby? Do you think that your your son and daughter were not who they are today; 10 days after conception? If you aborted them could they possibly have ever existed?

I recognize this as an attempt to appeal to that which you believe will move me . . . emotionally. But I don't buy into the same things you do.
Quote:
Maybe you are as emotionless as you would have us believe.

Perhaps a world where emotion is the criteria whereby issues are decided would be a good thing. I think not.
Quote:
My point is that both sides have equal degrees of emotion and rationality.

That is a good point. So we have a stalemate. I can live with that if you can.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Mon 10 Jul, 2017 09:27 pm
My point throughout this thread is that there are different points of view.

Bigotry is what happens when one ideology view shuts outs all other points of view; they refuse to consider other perspectives even when the facts suggest they may have a point, and they attack people who question their ideology.

I don't believe that there is absolute truth when it comes to moral issues... even passionately held moral issues. If there is a theoretical "absolute truth" a rational person needs to accept the possibility that they are "wrong". There are more than one side to most contentious issues (like abortion or even circumcision). You can hold a belief without accusing people who disagree (just as passionately) of being "barbaric".

This is what I see happening. Liberals (and particularly White liberals) are informing an ideological bubble where they are unable or unwilling to consider that any other point of view has any validity. Conservatives are doing the same thing. And here we are with a very divided society.

I often challenge conservatives on their political bubble... Finn knows where I stand. Here it is the White liberals who are holding sway.

So I am saying to the White Liberals (and I am a White liberal)... we don't have any monopoly on truth or on reason. The bubble that many White liberals live in is neither fact based or rational. That is not to say that there is no truth, the problem is the bubble that shuts out every other point of view. When the narrative is more important than the facts, the facts suffer.


Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Mon 10 Jul, 2017 09:34 pm
@Glennn,
Glennn wrote:

I know how badly you want to call abortion murder, but I'm afraid it doesn't meet the definition.


You don't know anything of the sort and since you get all agitated when you perceive others are trying to put words in your mouth you should follow your own lead.

What is your definition of murder?

Quote:
I can believe that years of debating the issue has made you . . . gun shy. But you don't have to worry about me. I haven't screamed at anyone so far. Of course, I might be just lulling you into a sense of security so that when I finally burst into rage, it will have maximum effect. Just kidding. Or am I?


I believe it.
Quote:
What more do you want?


Nothing


Quote:
I recognize this as an attempt to appeal to that which you believe will move me . . . emotionally. But I don't buy into what you do
.

I'm not trying to appeal to your emotions, I'm trying to challenge your certitude. You need to be less defensive.

Quote:
Perhaps a world where emotion is the criteria whereby issues are decided would be a good thing. I think not.


Fair enough but emotions are not going anywhere anytime soon.

Quote:
My point is that both sides have equal degrees of emotion and rationality.

Quote:
That is a good point. So we have a stalemate. I can live with that if you can.


I can.

Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Mon 10 Jul, 2017 09:38 pm
@maxdancona,
I'll give you a lot of credit for trying.
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  2  
Reply Mon 10 Jul, 2017 09:53 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
You don't know anything of the sort

Okay, I had you wrong. From now on I will count you as one who doesn't call abortion murder.
Quote:
and since you get all agitated when you perceive others are trying to put words in your mouth

Agitated. Specifically, point me to whatever it was I said that convinced you that I got all agitated.
Quote:
I believe it.

Good. At least you'll be on your guard.
Quote:
Nothing.

Good . . .
Quote:
I'm not trying to appeal to your emotions, I'm trying to challenge your certitude. You need to be less defensive.

I'm sorry, but this: "Have you had kids? If you have, were you irrational to call the developing fetus in your womb a baby? Do you think that your your son and daughter were not who they are today; 10 days after conception? If you aborted them could they possibly have ever existed" does not even qualify as even a thinly veiled attempt to appeal to the same emotions that move you.
Quote:
Fair enough but emotions are not going anywhere anytime soon.

Tell me about it! I've just dealt with a whole shitload of outside emotions.
Quote:
I can.

We'll see.
Glennn
 
  2  
Reply Mon 10 Jul, 2017 09:57 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
Bigotry is what happens when one ideology view shuts outs all other points of view

But I've never shut out all other points of view. All I've shut out is your view that opposition to child marriage and female genital mutilation indicates bigotry.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Mon 10 Jul, 2017 10:01 pm
@Glennn,
You're aflood with the emotions you want to cast aside.

Be less certain and less defensive...or don't
Glennn
 
  2  
Reply Mon 10 Jul, 2017 10:04 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
I understand that that is your way of saying that you couldn't find any posts that showed me to be "all agitated" and aflood with emotions. And that's okay. There's no shame in being mistaken.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Mon 10 Jul, 2017 10:12 pm
@Glennn,
As you would
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Jul, 2017 11:30 pm
To believe that moral codes are only based on reason is irrational.

Heck! To believe that emotions are irrational, is irrational. Emotions are just another manner of reason.
glitterbag
 
  2  
Reply Tue 11 Jul, 2017 12:21 am
@Olivier5,
Emotions are just another manner of reason????
snood
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jul, 2017 04:11 am
@glitterbag,
Yeah, that must be an alternative fact.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Tue 11 Jul, 2017 04:44 am
@snood,
It's actually a scientific fact: our brain has various ways of processing information, and emotions is one of them. There's no significant difference between the neurons and neurotransmiters responsible for emotions and those responsible for "reason". They are cabled differently, that's all.
snood
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jul, 2017 09:23 am
Emotion is not "another form of reasoning".
Emotion is not reason.
Emotion and cognition are produced in two different regions of the brain.
Emotion is controlled by the Amygdala, which is part of the Limbic System, and resides in close proximity to the brain stem.
Cognition - reasoning, deduction, abstract thought - occurs in the frontal lobe.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/52ec8c1ae4b047ccc14d6f29/t/58da2ca7ff7c5081ef02edba/1490693290608/amygdala.jpg
https://www.neuroskills.com/images/frontlobe11.jpg
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jul, 2017 09:24 am
@Olivier5,
I am skeptical Olivier. I believe the brain structure for emotional thinking, such as intuition are quite different than the structures uses for mathematical or analytical thought. I coildnt find a quick link on this though (and this is not a field in which I claim any expertise).

Do you have a link?

If you are making the point that humans often confuse emotion based intuition with logical thought, then I agree.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jul, 2017 09:36 am
@snood,
Reminds me of phrenology... The brain more holistic than that.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8483/8235476095_67da3699a6.jpg

glitterbag
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jul, 2017 10:52 am
@Olivier5,
Suffering mother of God, Phrenology?? If I said that or made a comment that emotion is just another form of reason I'd be dismissed as another overly hormonal ditzy female. Men of course never get hysterical or overwrought.
 

 
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