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Jesus seems to hate some things. Do you? Is hate good?

 
 
Reply Wed 3 May, 2017 01:42 pm
Jesus seems to hate some things. Do you? Is hate good?

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Jesus seems to be saying that he is promoting division and war with a number of his sayings that pit father against son and brother against brother.

Jesus advocated division, war and hate; even as some think he preached to love our enemies.

Did Jesus hate and is hate thus a good character trait?

Regards
DL
 
centrox
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 May, 2017 01:56 pm
It’s interesting to note who Jesus didn’t judge: first, Jesus did not judge the woman caught in bed with a man who was not her husband (John 8:1-11), but rather chose this opportunity to teach us the association of judgment and hypocrisy. He announced, “He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone.” Thus, in an opportunity of condemnation, Jesus chose to love. His expression of love occurs while acknowledging her wrongdoing but choosing forgiveness. Jesus makes a pattern of this. Another example of this is when He met the Samaritan woman at the well, who was divorced and living with a man (John 4:7-28). What is so telling about this verse is that Jesus bestowed love to one who was not a Jew but a Samaritan, someone from a religious community considered apostates. (The Samaritans were formerly enslaved by the Persians, taken from Israel at the end of Hoshea’s rule in 722 BC [2 Kings 17:1-2].) So who is Jesus judging?

According to the Gospels, Jesus did not refrain from judging, but he chose two distinct groups of people to target with his judgment: religious leaders who were hypocrites, and those who profited off the sacred.

Jesus really had it out for the Pharisees, whom he admonished for judging others, giving false teachings, and acting in pride. He reserved such phrases for them as “hypocrites,” and “den of vipers”! Pretty strong language for the Prince of Peace. Jesus also grew furious at the sight of the money changers at the Temple for their attempt to profit off of the religious observance of others.

So who are the Pharisees today, and who are the moneychangers? I would argue that religious leaders who abuse their pulpits for political propaganda, promote violence, or push a hateful agenda fit the Pharisee profile. Also, those who take the cross as a sign of salvation and cash it in as a merchandising opportunity are our contemporary moneychangers.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 May, 2017 02:41 pm
@centrox,
centrox wrote:

...So who are the Pharisees today, and who are the moneychangers? I would argue that religious leaders who abuse their pulpits for political propaganda, promote violence, or push a hateful agenda fit the Pharisee profile. Also, those who take the cross as a sign of salvation and cash it in as a merchandising opportunity are our contemporary moneychangers...



I was going to tell you who are descended today from the Pharisees and money changers (Jews do know which tribe they are descended from). But, since you are just making an analogy, not based on Judaism, I'll leave you to your version of knowledge.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 May, 2017 02:57 pm
@Greatest I am,
Your view of Jesus makes him out to be a real asshole.
centrox
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 May, 2017 03:45 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
since you are just making an analogy, not based on Judaism, I'll leave you to your version of knowledge.

That's mighty big of you. It's not my "knowledge"; it's something a guy wrote on Huffpost. I am an atheist. I was being mischievous I guess.
0 Replies
 
tibbleinparadise
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 May, 2017 05:16 pm
@Greatest I am,
Jesus called a spade a spade. Folks don't like being called out on their behavior. There is a HUGE difference between judging, hating, and simply pointing out. Jesus was know for associating with the worst of the worst. Why? Certainly not to judge them. He called them on their bad behavior and LOVED them. Hanging on a cross next to criminals, they begged for forgiveness and he offered it freely.

Jesus doesnt hate anybody.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 May, 2017 05:21 pm
@tibbleinparadise,
Quote:
Jesus called a spade a spade.


I love irony (I think you might want to rethink this particular phrase Wink )!
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2017 02:51 pm
@centrox,
centrox wrote:

It’s interesting to note who Jesus didn’t judge: first, Jesus did not judge the woman caught in bed with a man who was not her husband (John 8:1-11), but rather chose this opportunity to teach us the association of judgment and hypocrisy. He announced, “He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone.” Thus, in an opportunity of condemnation, Jesus chose to love. His expression of love occurs while acknowledging her wrongdoing but choosing forgiveness. Jesus makes a pattern of this. Another example of this is when He met the Samaritan woman at the well, who was divorced and living with a man (John 4:7-28). What is so telling about this verse is that Jesus bestowed love to one who was not a Jew but a Samaritan, someone from a religious community considered apostates. (The Samaritans were formerly enslaved by the Persians, taken from Israel at the end of Hoshea’s rule in 722 BC [2 Kings 17:1-2].) So who is Jesus judging?

According to the Gospels, Jesus did not refrain from judging, but he chose two distinct groups of people to target with his judgment: religious leaders who were hypocrites, and those who profited off the sacred.

Jesus really had it out for the Pharisees, whom he admonished for judging others, giving false teachings, and acting in pride. He reserved such phrases for them as “hypocrites,” and “den of vipers”! Pretty strong language for the Prince of Peace. Jesus also grew furious at the sight of the money changers at the Temple for their attempt to profit off of the religious observance of others.

So who are the Pharisees today, and who are the moneychangers? I would argue that religious leaders who abuse their pulpits for political propaganda, promote violence, or push a hateful agenda fit the Pharisee profile. Also, those who take the cross as a sign of salvation and cash it in as a merchandising opportunity are our contemporary moneychangers.


Thanks for this. We basically agree.

We have no argument as you recognize that Jesus did hate.

Just a side note on that adultery thing.

I guess that you did not note that they wanted to stone the woman, yet the man and her co-accused was not there, so it is not surprising that Jesus could not judge her without also judging a man not there to defend himself.

Regards
D
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2017 02:55 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Your view of Jesus makes him out to be a real asshole.


In many moral ways, he was.

Just look at his no-divorce policy and his substitutionary punishment policies. Both are anti-love and quite unjust.

I could make that list quite longer if you see Jesus as God/Yahweh. I will just quote this instead.

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

Regards
DL

0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2017 02:57 pm
@tibbleinparadise,
tibbleinparadise wrote:

Jesus called a spade a spade. Folks don't like being called out on their behavior. There is a HUGE difference between judging, hating, and simply pointing out. Jesus was know for associating with the worst of the worst. Why? Certainly not to judge them. He called them on their bad behavior and LOVED them. Hanging on a cross next to criminals, they begged for forgiveness and he offered it freely.

Jesus doesnt hate anybody.


So Jesus did not hate Satan.

Ok.

Why then will he not cure her instead of killing her.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
centrox
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2017 03:07 pm
@Greatest I am,
Greatest I am wrote:
Thanks for this. We basically agree.

Don't read too much into that. I recognise that Jesus "hated" cruelty, hypocrisy, moneylenders in the temple, and so on. At the same time (and this is important) he loved the cruel or hypocritical people and the moneylenders. He proclaimed that forgiveness and regeneration was available to them as much as anyone else. The word "hate" is a strong one, and today it has nasty connotations - consider "hate speech" for example. Don't get too hung up on that word. Don't read my "agreement" as you call it as any kind of endorsement of any agenda you may have (do you?). I'll check out your posting history and see if you seem to have one. [I did. "I am proudly an Islamophobe". Sorry. You are crazy.]

Setanta
 
  3  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2017 03:53 pm
Bishop Burnet, an important primary source for the restoration, once wrote to his friend that King Charles II had "a strange notion of God's love." According to Burnet, Charles said: "The only things that God hates are that we be wicked and that we design mischief." I'm sure the good bishop had a much, much longer list of the things god hates.

Source in King Charles II, Antonia Fraser, London, 1979.
Greatest I am
 
  0  
Reply Sun 4 Jun, 2017 08:43 am
@centrox,
centrox wrote:

Greatest I am wrote:
Thanks for this. We basically agree.

Don't read too much into that. I recognise that Jesus "hated" cruelty, hypocrisy, moneylenders in the temple, and so on. At the same time (and this is important) he loved the cruel or hypocritical people and the moneylenders. He proclaimed that forgiveness and regeneration was available to them as much as anyone else. The word "hate" is a strong one, and today it has nasty connotations - consider "hate speech" for example. Don't get too hung up on that word. Don't read my "agreement" as you call it as any kind of endorsement of any agenda you may have (do you?). I'll check out your posting history and see if you seem to have one. [I did. "I am proudly an Islamophobe". Sorry. You are crazy.]

What is crazy is thinking you can hate sin while loving the sinner.

If you are being raped, will you love your rapist?

Jesus hated and so should we.

Regards
DL




0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jun, 2017 08:45 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Bishop Burnet, an important primary source for the restoration, once wrote to his friend that King Charles II had "a strange notion of God's love." According to Burnet, Charles said: "The only things that God hates are that we be wicked and that we design mischief." I'm sure the good bishop had a much, much longer list of the things god hates.

Source in King Charles II, Antonia Fraser, London, 1979.


Indeed.

To say that God loves all the souls he will kill instead or cure shows a deep hate.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
 

 
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