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Weather hots up under wind farms

 
 
Col Man
 
Reply Sat 6 Nov, 2004 02:22 am
Link : http://uk.news.yahoo.com/041104/12/f5yvd.html

Wind farms can change the weather, according to a model of how these forests of giant turbines interact with the local atmosphere. And the idea is backed up by observations from real wind farms.

Somnath Baidya Roy from Princeton University, and his colleagues modelled a hypothetical wind farm consisting of a 100 by 100 array of wind turbines, each 100 metres tall and set 1 kilometre apart.

They placed the virtual farm in the Great Plains region of the US, an area suitable for large wind farms, and modelled the climate using data from Oklahoma.

During the day, the model suggests that wind farms have very little effect on the climate because the warmth of the sun mixes the lower layers of the atmosphere. But at night, when the atmosphere is stiller, the wind turbines have a significant effect.

"At hub height the turbine gives an extra input of turbulence to the wind, which increases the vertical mixing," explains Baidya Roy. This brings down to ground level the warm night air and higher wind speeds that are normally found at 100 metres.

At 3 am the average wind speed in Oklahoma is 3.5 metres per second, but it increased to around 5 m/s in the model wind farm. The model also suggested that the temperature would increase by around 2°C underneath the 10,000 turbines. Over the course of a day this averages out to an increase in ground-level wind speed of around 0.6 m/s and a rise in temperature of around 0.7°C.

Heat of the night

How such a change might affect local wildlife and agriculture is not clear.

The findings are backed by real observations. Neil Kelley, a meteorologist at the National Renewable Energy Laboratory in Golden, Colorado, has gathered data from a wind farm in California.

"Although the wind farm was more dense and the turbines smaller we still found that the turbines tended to pull down heat and momentum from above, particularly during the night-time hours," he says.

Meanwhile, Gustave Corten from the Energy Research Centre in Petten in the Netherlands is carrying out experiments with a model wind farm inside a wind tunnel. "I think the study is of much interest and I can confirm that large wind farms will affect the microclimate," says Corten.

Baidya Roy says it may be possible to modify the wind turbines so that their effect on the weather is not so extreme. "If engineers can reduce turbulence then the turbine would become more efficient and the environmental impact would be reduced," he says.

But no amount of engineering will change the fact that energy is being removed from the wind. "People tend to think that renewable energy is for free, but it isn't. There is a price to pay for all kinds of consumption, including renewable energy," says Baidya Roy.

Journal reference: Journal of Geophysical Research Atmospheres (DOI: 10.1029/2004 JD004763).
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,166 • Replies: 14
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Nov, 2004 03:03 am
Well, close to my place is the biggest windpark in continental Europe with nearly 200 wind turbines.

We didn't notice such since it was established here, even not those, who are strongly against it.
0 Replies
 
Col Man
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Nov, 2004 03:07 am
far out... does it mean you get cheap power?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Nov, 2004 03:12 am
Not really, but those who own the turbines earn their money quite easily Laughing

http://www.energieland.nrw.de/leitprojekte/leitprojekte/images/we_lichtenau.jpg
0 Replies
 
Col Man
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Nov, 2004 03:25 am
ok i see
here in uk if they build them near your house you sometimes get to buy a part share
0 Replies
 
Lady J
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Nov, 2004 04:07 am
We have a lot of wind farms in California and while the power rights themselves belong to the power companies, I do believe they pay royalties or rent to those whose land the windmills are set upon. It never occurred to me about an environmental change due to their use, but it makes a great deal of sense. Could more and more wind farms eventually contribute to global warming you think?
0 Replies
 
Col Man
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Nov, 2004 04:24 am
i dunno ,maybe a bit...
but at the end of the day it will be less warming than burning fossil fuels...
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Nov, 2004 02:56 pm
it seems to me that the 'total amount' of heat the earth maintains should not be changed by the use of wind(i mean the heat that would be coming from the sun and other 'natural' sources). however i can see that the distribution of the heat might change. could it have a similar effect as having a ceiling fan in a house ? from what i've seen on science programs, the heat that usually is trapped at the ceiling of a house can be re-distributed away from the ceiling and towards the floor level thus reducing the need to crank up the furnace. while the earth is not a house, i understand that there is still 'a ceiling' over the earth trapping the heat. could it therefore be possible that the natural occuring hheat could be re-distributed by large use of windfarms ? i heard mention of the 'possible' heating effect recently on a science program. would it be a problem at all or might it perhaps be a benefit ? hbg
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Nov, 2004 03:12 pm
Col Man wrote:
i dunno ,maybe a bit...
but at the end of the day it will be less warming than burning fossil fuels...


I agree. I tend to think that they would atleast be the lesser of the 2 evils.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Nov, 2004 03:18 pm
WINDFARMS
quite a few interesting articles on this subject can be found in google under WINDFARMS + TEMPERATURE CHANGE
0 Replies
 
neil
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2004 05:15 pm
Since the axel is horizontal, it is counter intuitive that the turbines cause vertical mixing, but apparently vertical mixing does occur making the air at 100 meters altitude cooler. This could cause night time snow if the 1.5 meter temperature is about 4 degrees c = 39 degrees f, which is too warm to snow without the turbines and the turbines could prevent night time snow if the 1.5 meter temperature is about zero f. Neil
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Nov, 2004 12:32 am
And why doesn't such happen here in Europe?
0 Replies
 
Instigate
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Nov, 2004 01:44 am
Montana wrote:
Col Man wrote:
i dunno ,maybe a bit...
but at the end of the day it will be less warming than burning fossil fuels...


I agree. I tend to think that they would atleast be the lesser of the 2 evils.


The only economically viable alternative to fossil fuel is nuclear power, and we all know what the enviros think of that. Wind power, tide power, solar power: all are inefficient, expensive and unreliable.

Hydrogen has been put forth as an alternative, but it is all hype. There are no hydrogen reserves on earth, pure hydrogen does not occur naturally. To produce hydrogen, you have to get it from water by means of electrolysis, which requires a reliable source of electricity transported via transmission lines that lose an average of 50% power on their way from the power plant to the hydrogen plant. It all results in a net loss of energy. You cant get more energy from a system than you put into it.


When we run out of fossil fuels, you can bet your bottom dollar that we go nuclear on a large scale; everything else is too expensive.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Nov, 2004 03:55 pm
walter wrote : "And why doesn't such happen here in Europe? " ... walter: the experiments that seem to show the change in ground temperature are based on models that forsee windfarms several (several hundred ?) times the size of current windfarms. i've read reports of studies that see windfarms that would stretch across large (and largely uninhabited) areas of north america. i also read a report that suggested that a large enough sun collector that might be erected in nevada (?) could supply all the energy required for north-america. apparently work is being done to build collectors with low-grade (inexpensive) silicon ; current collectors using high-grade silicon are rather expensive - but are apparently not needed. perhaps these are just pipedreams ? who knows ? (as an aside, there is now a report stating that a single -current- dose of flu vaccine can be used to to inocculate FIVE people, however the injection has to be just under the skin for it to work. have spoken to two physicians who told me that it would require special training for this, but they confirmed that it could be done). hbg
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Nov, 2004 12:04 am
Thanks, hamburger! Didn't know that, since - although we have quite a few rather big (about 80 turbines) windfarms here - we are not planning such here, until now.
0 Replies
 
 

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