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Is doing evil a necessity of life?

 
 
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2017 05:39 am
Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Did the ancients know this and Is that why we are all named as sinners?

I think nature created the potential for evil in each of us because without that potential we would not have the ability to make a free choice between good and evil or evolve to find the fittest human.

Consider. Evolution has two major components that we must do to survive; compete or cooperate, as required. Cooperation we would see as good because it does not create a victim or loser. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim and loser.

From this view, we must do evil and to survive as that process produces the fittest. To not compete would produce the least fit and we would likely go extinct.

Do you see this conundrum of us having to do evil? If you do, should God punish us for doing what we must do so as not to go extinct?

I do not see God as justified in punishing us and that is why Gnostic Christians like me are Universalists.

I see us all as not requiring salvation. God would not do evil by punishing us for doing what we must do to survive and thrive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exsultet
“O happy fault, O necessary sin of Adam”.
“in the light of paradise, even the sin of Adam may be regarded as truly necessary and a happy fault.”



If sin and doing evil is good and necessary for Adam, who represents all of mankind, then the church and I are suggesting that it is good that we all do evil.

It seems that nature, or God, if you are into the supernatural, ultimately, created a perfect imperfect world. To appreciate perfection, we must know imperfection. This knowledge frees the mind.

Regards
DL
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Xocolatl
 
  2  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2017 06:14 am
@Greatest I am,
I definitely agree with your post.

I would like to add this:

If God wanted us to understand what evil is, we must be able to know what good is and vice versa. We must be able to sin in order to refrain from it. So the knowledge of good and evil is a necessary thing in the understanding of the meaning of life.

Without it we would have remained in a state of (ignorant) bliss as we were in the garden of evil. Like a child, we were ignorant of the evil of the world but also unable to grow and learn until we experienced pain and learned what ''bad'' means.

So ultimately, God created a perfect imperfect world. To appreciate perfection, we must know imperfection.

This knowledge frees the mind.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2017 09:46 am
@Greatest I am,
Quote:
Evolution has two major components that we must do to survive; compete or cooperate, as required. Cooperation we would see as good because it does not create a victim or loser. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim and loser.


I see all carnivores as cooperative hunters but solitary feeders.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2017 10:00 am
@Greatest I am,
"Evil" is a subjective coinage, and an old-fashioned blurry confusing and superficial yet useful concept. It goes along with other superficial analysis like blame and responsibility. All of them social shortcuts to avoid deep analysis and complex evaluation of facts of life. "Evil" when under rigorous scrutiny boils down to stupidity... the same kind that elected Trump for instance.

...Ontologically speaking the usefulness of stupidity is not far apart from the second law of thermodynamics nor from the reason why the Universe is not perfectly uniform from the get go. A perfect Reality would be a very dull place with a perfectly uniform distribution of energy without any matter, no galaxies, stars or any planets. No stuff of any kind, just radiation.
Stupidity is relative to frames of reference and goes in different scaling degrees. That is to mean consciousness, the search for answers, problem-solving, computation, necessarily requires ignorance, (you can't justify/prove a system from inwards) and thus an endless search for clarification.
Its usefulness is to provide work and through it meaning to the lesser stupid kind around.

To sum it all up in a sentence, yes, stupidity is necessary. (therefore Natural, go figure)
dalehileman
 
  2  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2017 11:30 am
@Greatest I am,
I'sd say so, Am, 'cause it's all relative. Porky would consider us the summit of evil

'Less ur a vege
Greatest I am
 
  2  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2017 05:45 pm
@Xocolatl,
Xocolatl wrote:

I definitely agree with your post.

I would like to add this:

If God wanted us to understand what evil is, we must be able to know what good is and vice versa. We must be able to sin in order to refrain from it. So the knowledge of good and evil is a necessary thing in the understanding of the meaning of life.

Without it we would have remained in a state of (ignorant) bliss as we were in the garden of evil. Like a child, we were ignorant of the evil of the world but also unable to grow and learn until we experienced pain and learned what ''bad'' means.

So ultimately, God created a perfect imperfect world. To appreciate perfection, we must know imperfection.

This knowledge frees the mind.



“O happy fault, O necessary sin of Adam”.
“in the light of paradise, even the sin of Adam may be regarded as truly necessary and a happy fault.”

The church agrees with us.

Good God. We must be wrong.

Just kidding.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2017 05:55 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

Quote:
Evolution has two major components that we must do to survive; compete or cooperate, as required. Cooperation we would see as good because it does not create a victim or loser. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim and loser.


I see all carnivores as cooperative hunters but solitary feeders.


I do not see where you see that.

The hearth and fire are what separated us from the more common animals.

Without fire and the hearth we might still be in the trees and caves.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2017 06:01 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:

"Evil" is a subjective coinage, and an old-fashioned blurry confusing and superficial yet useful concept. It goes along with other superficial analysis like blame and responsibility. All of them social shortcuts to avoid deep analysis and complex evaluation of facts of life. "Evil" when under rigorous scrutiny boils down to stupidity... the same kind that elected Trump for instance.

...Ontologically speaking the usefulness of stupidity is not far apart from the second law of thermodynamics nor from the reason why the Universe is not perfectly uniform from the get go. A perfect Reality would be a very dull place with a perfectly uniform distribution of energy without any matter, no galaxies, stars or any planets. No stuff of any kind, just radiation.
Stupidity is relative to frames of reference and goes in different scaling degrees. That is to mean consciousness, the search for answers, problem-solving, computation, necessarily requires ignorance, (you can't justify/prove a system from inwards) and thus an endless search for clarification.
Its usefulness is to provide work and through it meaning to the lesser stupid kind around.

To sum it all up in a sentence, yes, stupidity is necessary. (therefore Natural, go figure)


Nature or nurture. Hmm.

I cannot agree as I see stupidity (mostly) as a product of poor nurturing.

There are indeed some human brain and mind defects that will cause a lack of intelligence in some but nature always creates for the best possible end regardless ot those exceptions.

That is irrefutable.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  2  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2017 06:06 pm
@dalehileman,
dalehileman wrote:

I'sd say so, Am, 'cause it's all relative. Porky would consider us the summit of evil

'Less ur a vege


The way we are treating the whole of the environment, I agree.

Even the Vegans will agree if they think of Monsanto and gene modified foods.

I have to admit I am on the fence on that issue though.

I have not done the research and should not bad mouth out of hand.

Regards
DL
dalehileman
 
  2  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2017 07:07 pm
@Greatest I am,
Greatest, you exhibit the most resraint
Johnherald444
 
  0  
Reply Wed 29 Mar, 2017 05:40 am
I don't think it's needed in life. But people do evil. They do because they always like to get his own success and achievement. So for their personal interest they can do anything and do evil.
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Apr, 2017 02:35 pm
@dalehileman,
dalehileman wrote:

Greatest, you exhibit the most resraint


Thanks.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Apr, 2017 02:40 pm
@Johnherald444,
Johnherald444 wrote:

Quote:
I don't think it's needed in life. But people do evil.


If you do not think it is required, then show how you can live without competing for resources. Please use the scenario of job hunting.

Quote:
They do because they always like to get his own success and achievement. So for their personal interest they can do anything and do evil.


I agree but without that drive to succeed, which is us trying to become the fittest, we would go extinct.

Are selfish gene is there to protect and guide us. It defaults to cooperation but knows that to live and thrive, we must compete and thus do evil to the losers.

Regards
DL

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