Could we kick our oil habit in 50 years????

what with the rise in oil prices in the US, Ive switched to biodeisel in the last few months. It is an esterified fat. Presently its made from veggie oils but soybeans and corn, and even garbage can be used to provide the fatty acids.
It is now cheaper to buy biodeisel than regular deisel. Of course that will change when we realize that the resource is production limited. My truckasaurus goes down the road smelling like a bagel bakery. People donnt mind being stuck behind me at a light.


DOIN WHAT I CAN IN THE US

That is fascinating, Farmerman!!!

I understand the new diesel engines are fantastic - I was listening to a radio program about them yesterday.

We have two new windfarms being built in my state.

yeh, theres a lot of new deisel packages being considered.
biodeisel works just fine and smells yummy. I think the deisel made from garbage wont be quite as yummy smelling, they will have to get rid of the "grosser" amino compounds that impart that unique "landfill" smell, otherwise sales could plummet.

we will have the technology available quite soon for all kinds of transportation options. For fixed facilities, i think the choices are more serious. We have to relook at coal, nuke, etc

It's all happening already. Nobody talks about it. Everybody has to keep the 'competitive advantage' and all.

By the way, it's the oil companies that are paying for most of it and it is they who will control the new energy sources as they become viable.

By the other way, just because we stop using so much oil for energy won't stop our reliance on it. A lot of the plastics we use come from oil. A lot of the roads we drive on are held together by oil. Marine transport is unlikely to have an alternative to diesel for a LONG time. Even then the ships that are already in service will take decades to be cycled out of existance. Worldwide population growth in outright terms, and in terms of the growth in development, are going to increase demand in all these areas.

And just in case you're wondering, no, I don't work for an oil company. I just don't think it's somehow all their fault.

It's all happening already. Nobody talks about it. Everybody has to keep the 'competitive advantage' and all.

By the way, it's the oil companies that are paying for most of it and it is they who will control the new energy sources as they become viable.

By the other way, just because we stop using so much oil for energy won't stop our reliance on it. A lot of the plastics we use come from oil. A lot of the roads we drive on are held together by oil. Marine transport is unlikely to have an alternative to diesel for a LONG time. Even then the ships that are already in service will take decades to be cycled out of existance. Worldwide population growth in outright terms, and in terms of the growth in development, are going to increase demand in all these areas.

And just in case you're wondering, no, I don't work for an oil company. I just don't think it's somehow all their fault.

I heard you the first time! Lol!

I was going to say that counselling works faster, but then I realized we weren't talking about hash oil.

The greatest amount of oil isused for energy. Plastics and chem products like fertilizers and paints etc, can be made from othe types of oils. Weve learned about polymerization in the 20s and we use petroleum ,mostly cause its there.
Waxes and plastics from soybean oils are making big inroads in the market because the environmental risks arent as great as a product that has a lot of cyclic compounds like petroleum or "coal oil"

Hmm - that is interesting - I was wondering about plastics etc...

I'm still pushing for hydrogen: http://4hydrogen.com/about.html

Can you say why in a few words?

I'm inclined to agree with Adrian, and agree with Adrian. It is not all the fault of the oil companies.
All the alternatives to oil have some problems. I suspect there are some sizable subsidies in the cheaper than diesel that farmerman is buying.
I can not condone converting vast tracks of food production to energy production with almost billion humans presently going hungry. That could double world food prices. We could however get perhaps 1% of the world's energy, by agriculture and think of it as a soil bank, which will be used to grow food when and if there are customers for more food. Most other alternatives also have a one percent or there abouts practical upper limit. Perhaps we should be doing serious pilot programs with about 100 alternative energy ideas besides the ten that are presently getting funding of significance. I'm saddened to see megatons of fire wood going to landfills here in Florida since our three hurricanes this season, I burn sticks less than a cm in diameter in my wood stove and it has some advantages over bigger pieces. Admittedly small sticks are labor intensive. Neil

Farmer - If I have a diesel engine, can I use the veg. oil? Where do you get it? Is it available at certain stations? Is there some change to the system before you can use it?

Food products, water, air, all need to be in higher use for energy needs, IMO.

There was a study taking place at Univ. of Mo @ Columbia when I was there 20 years ago. Had to do with grates in the floor for the livestock to knock the cow manure down into tracks so it could then be processed for energy. (methane?)

Hearing of Farmer smelling like a bagel factory brings up two things:

1. If that's the case, what would the manure do to the smell of our vehicles? Yikes?

2. Would we all eat more due to the constant fresh bread aroma? Would fast food flourish?

So am I, and ultimately I think that is where we will end up. The problem with this web site is that it ignores the fact that you need energy to make hydrogen. That energy will probably come from nuclear power, which has its own problems.

hydrogen is the future. bUT (the oil companies have us by the shorties again) most of the first gen H2 will be made from petroleum or methane/ethane.
Squinney-I buy biodeisel from a locaal manufacturer in NJ. He produces the biodesisel and markets it at a number of stations in Pa Md Del and NJ. i have a map. there is a biodeisel dot org or something like that. Youll have to google up the site.
Biodeisel is one of the few alternative fuels that is being grassroot produced. tThe NJ fella started with an idea and some capital, He was an organic chemist from a pharmaceutical co.

To make biodeisel you have to take the fat, like donut fryer waste oil, french fry oil etc. Then it has to be converted to an ester which is a fatty acid. It starts with adding alcohol aand then water is driven off in a reactor. The process leaves a long chain fatty acid or "ester"
The stuff smells greaat when you stop at a light. the stuff I have now smells something like donuts or potato chips frying. I put on a few just driving.

Jeeps gonna be making a deisel Liberty soon. It has a choice of deisels which will include a desiel version of the 4 L truck block and the little(3.5L) Caterpillar (now watch as jarlaxle comes in and calls me a liar-

I'm also pushing for hydrogen and I agree it takes energy to make hydrogen. Hydrogen is one of the hundred technologies that can supply 1% of the world's energy needs. In the USA, experimenters are discouraged by hydrogen in small quantities costing ten? times gasoline for the energy delivered. Much of this price is due to small scale, handling charges, and getting the hydrogen in a suitable container to carry to your home or car. A methane or propane leak of one cubic foot per hour, will leak 100? cubic feet per hour if hydrogen is substituted. A large hydrogen economy could easily double the trace of hydrogen presently in Earth's atmosphere. Would that have a significant impact on our enviroment. Probably not: but how can we be sure? Did increasing the trace of propane in Earth's atmosphere have a significant envirormental impact?
On the positive side, numerous processes produce small amounts of hydrogen which typically is vented. Some of this hydrogen can be rescued. Natural gas is still vented into a flame at many oilwells and refineries. Some of this gas could be rescued and used as an energy source. Typically this wasted gas contains more than 1?% hydrogen. Many processes have wasted energy that can be converted to hydrogen at comparatively small cost and scale. Electric power plants run at low output and thus low efficiency several hours per day. They could make hydrogen at low cost during these low demand periods. Neil

I lost the thread, thanks all for piping in, so to speak. Perhaps the problem with hydrogen is that the industry is underfunded?