15
   

ANY TRUTH TO IT?? DID PUTIN HAVE A HAND SELECTING TRUMP?

 
 
Foofie
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2016 03:24 pm
The U.S. is getting aboard the international space station with the largesse of the Russian space vehicles. The continued exploration of space will likely be a joint effort to include Russia and the U.S. . However, the Chinese have their own space station, no one from the west, I thought, was invited on that one. Odd? Or, telling?

Regardless, NATO under the Democrats have been allowed to move military up to the western border of Russia. Oh, that would make the Kremlin happy, considering they might be suffering from PTSD after losing 22 million in WWII (as the Nazis headed towards Stalingrad). Is it not logical to see that there was a Eurocentric orientation in the Democratic party, commisserating with Europe's obsession with the Russians as the bad guys; meanwhile, the Europeans would freeze in the winter without Russian natural gas.

All else is just, in my opinion, just the continued gossip over the proverbial backyard fence, to make the time pass, while hanging wet laundry.

It appears to me that Europe suffers from being anti-Russites, just like they had been anti-Semites in the past, in my opinion. And, if Trump gets a "deal" with Russia to explore the Arctic for oil,gas, and strategic minerals, those that will have new stateside high tech jobs will be quite happy.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2016 03:28 pm
@Foofie,
Really Foofie, you don't see a problem with Russia and anti-Semitism. In WWII when you point out how we were fighting. Antisemitism in Europe, Russia was being led by Josef Stalin. Have you heard of Stalin? He wasn't so good for Jews.

The contradictions between your White Supremacist sympathies, and your Zionist rhetoric never cease to amuse me.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/25/9c/b2/259cb20c610158db693ccbd00e4d4163.jpg

farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2016 03:30 pm
@Foofie,
my ancestors were Jews in Russia. They hqd a wonderful time being convinced to to denounce their religion and then get uprooted. Yep, really kind folks them Russkies. Im amazed at how quickly the socio-political revisionism has occurred after Trumps selection.

roger
 
  2  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2016 04:37 pm
@George,
George wrote:

edgarblythe wrote:
I believe Clinton would have won for sure if that had not happened.
It had an effect, no doubt, but I think she still would have lost. There's a lot
of anger and frustration out there.


I'm inclined to agree. Anyhow, it's good to see you on this kind of thread.
McGentrix
 
  0  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2016 05:15 pm
From what I understand, and this is only my opinion, during the last Russian election, the US State Department, led by Hillary Clinton, was accused of leading unrest and opposition protests against Putin.

All the Wrong Moves: Putin Plots His Strategy Against the Protesters

Quote:
They chose to envision their dilemma as a game of chess. "We need to look at the chessboard," Putin said, "where all the moves are clear, both the white and the black." The opponent in this game, as Putin went on to explain, is not so much local opposition leaders, who this week organized the largest protests ever against his rule, but the "American partners" moving them around like pawns.

He referred in particular to U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, who expressed "serious concerns" this week about the fairness of Russia's parliamentary elections, held on Sunday, Dec. 4. The vote allowed Putin's United Russia party to hang on to a slim majority, but well-substantiated claims of voter fraud drove thousands of Russians to the streets of Moscow and other cities to protest on Monday and Tuesday. "She set the tone for certain actors inside the country; she gave the signal," Putin said of Clinton on Thursday. "They heard this signal and, with the support of the U.S. State Department, started actively doing their work."


Clinton appeared to de-legitimize the elections.

I think Putin was reciprocating by interfering with Clinton's run for the President in America. I don't think he was doing anything to help Trump, so much as to damage Clinton.
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2016 06:11 pm
@McGentrix,
Oh, well that makes it all acceptable then eh?
Jeez Louise
McGentrix
 
  0  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2016 06:13 pm
@farmerman,
I looked back over my post and I didn't see where I asked for your opinion.
George
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2016 06:24 pm
@roger,
roger wrote:
I'm inclined to agree. Anyhow, it's good to see you on this kind of thread.
I'm still trying to figure out how the hell I got here.
0 Replies
 
George
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2016 06:30 pm
So what does everybody think about this Craig Murray guy?
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2016 06:53 pm
@McGentrix,
d you understand how this outfit works??
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2016 10:20 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
Putin was directly involved in the Russians hack of our entire election process? Is it credible ?
Id like to hear all sides, from rabid conspiracy wonks to deep deniers of anytjing that may implicate our new president.

Clearly it happened.

I've no idea if it changed the result of the election.

I'm happy to have a president who will put pro-Constitution justices on the Supreme Court, but we need to retaliate severely against Russia for what they did. We can't tolerate nonsense like this from other countries.

As I said in another thread, I think Mr. Obama should order US Cyber Command to drain all of Putin's bank accounts and donate all the money to various worthy charities.

I'm a bit taken aback at the idea of having an American Secretary of State who has received the Order of Lenin. The Senate might want to take a closer look at that before confirming.


farmerman wrote:
Now it turns out that OBAMA knew of this information but didnt think it would be of any importance because Hillry was comfortably in the lead.

My understanding is that he didn't do much because he feared that reacting too strongly would unfairly sway the election results.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2016 10:22 pm
@djjd62,
djjd62 wrote:
i love how when it happens to America it's a travesty, but when America helps change another countries direction it's a noble effort

That's because it is.

There is no moral equivalence between "us promoting democracy in another country" and "Russia subverting our democracy".
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2016 10:59 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:
From what I understand, and this is only my opinion, during the last Russian election, the US State Department, led by Hillary Clinton, was accused of leading unrest and opposition protests against Putin.

The key word there is "accused". Scumbag dictators always accuse the US of nonsense when they try to justify their crimes.


McGentrix wrote:
Clinton appeared to de-legitimize the elections.

All Clinton did was clearly denounce Putin's fraudulent elections as the frauds that they actually were.


McGentrix wrote:
I think Putin was reciprocating by interfering with Clinton's run for the President in America. I don't think he was doing anything to help Trump, so much as to damage Clinton.

If Putin thinks that "US condemnation of his fraudulent elections" justifies "his disruption of US elections" that shows that we need to take major retaliatory action against him.
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2016 11:10 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:

From what I understand, and this is only my opinion, during the last Russian election, the US State Department, led by Hillary Clinton, was accused of leading unrest and opposition protests against Putin.

All the Wrong Moves: Putin Plots His Strategy Against the Protesters

Quote:
They chose to envision their dilemma as a game of chess. "We need to look at the chessboard," Putin said, "where all the moves are clear, both the white and the black." The opponent in this game, as Putin went on to explain, is not so much local opposition leaders, who this week organized the largest protests ever agains

t his rule, but the "American partners" moving them around like pawns.

He referred in particular to U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, who expressed "serious concerns" this week about the fairness of Russia's parliamentary elections, held on Sunday, Dec. 4. The vote allowed Putin's United Russia party to hang on to a slim majority, but well-substantiated claims of voter fraud drove thousands of Russians to the streets of Moscow and other cities to protest on Monday and Tuesday. "She set the tone for certain actors
inside the country; she gave the signal," Putin said of Clinton on Thursday. "They heard this signal and, with the support of the U.S. State Department, started actively doing their work."


Clinton appeared to de-legitimize the elections.

I think Putin was reciprocating by interfering with Clinton's run for the President in America. I don't think he was doing anything to help Trump, so much as to damage Clinton.



Once again you miss the point by a country mile. The Russians might have a favorite candidate, but the ultimate goal was to see how easily the every day McG could be manipulated. You and your complacent buddies were easy pickings. Dupes, pure and simple........a little like the good Christians who burned witches at the stake in Salem, not just dupes, lazy dupes.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2016 11:21 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
Regardless, NATO under the Democrats have been allowed to move military up to the western border of Russia.

NATO only did that when Russia started systematically invading all their neighbors, with plans to invade the EU coming up next on their war agenda.


Foofie wrote:
Oh, that would make the Kremlin happy, considering they might be suffering from PTSD after losing 22 million in WWII (as the Nazis headed towards Stalingrad).

Russia should have thought about that before systematically invading country after country and planning to invade the EU next.


Foofie wrote:
Is it not logical to see that there was a Eurocentric orientation in the Democratic party, commisserating with Europe's obsession with the Russians as the bad guys; meanwhile, the Europeans would freeze in the winter without Russian natural gas.

Given Russia's aggression (not to mention all their atrocities and war crimes), there isn't much cause to disagree with the Europeans.


Foofie wrote:
It appears to me that Europe suffers from being anti-Russites, just like they had been anti-Semites in the past, in my opinion.

The Jews were always innocents unfairly accused though. Russia is every bit as evil as they are portrayed and even worse.


Foofie wrote:
And, if Trump gets a "deal" with Russia to explore the Arctic for oil,gas, and strategic minerals, those that will have new stateside high tech jobs will be quite happy.

I really can't see how cooperating with Russia will have much in the way of economic benefits to the US. We aren't hurting for oil resources.

And the negatives of associating with Russia are pretty strong.

First, Mr. Obama has been pressuring all of our Arab allies to not give Stinger missiles to Syrian rebels. As soon as Mr. Trump cuts ties with all the rebel aid efforts and starts cheering for Russia, Stinger missiles will likely start flowing into the hands of al-Qa'ida militants.

Second, Islamic State has been severely degraded and nearly destroyed due to the air strikes carried out by the US/UK/France/Germany and Australia, and by Kurdish ground forces who are working in conjunction with those air strikes. Once Mr. Trump stops US military efforts in the region and relies on Russia to do the job, Islamic State is going to flourish again because Russia isn't doing a thing to attack Islamic State. The only thing that Russia is doing is helping Assad massacre innocent civilians.

Third, by cheering for Russia while they wantonly commit genocide against innocent Syrian civilians, the US will become tainted by our association with that genocide. I remember when Russia committed genocide in Chechnya. After it was over some rightfully aggrieved Chechen widows sneaked into Russia, wired hundreds of Russian schoolchildren to bricks of C4, then splattered them all over the walls of their school. I expect there will be some rightfully aggrieved Syrian widows looking for similar revenge, and if Syrians start thinking that America is backing the genocide that they are suffering, they might start thinking about including us in their revenge plans.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 16 Dec, 2016 05:29 am
@oralloy,
Zuckerberg is saying that FB will use Politifax, Snopes, and other fact checking services to FLAG FAKE NEWS.
I wonder if folks who tweet their "facts" will have imposed similar flagging. (Kinda hard to waste cash on something 144 characters long

Think about how much time you spent on the Knox thread, what would that constitute in hours of research??
Seems hardly do able (at least financially)
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 16 Dec, 2016 05:49 am
@oralloy,
Quote:

I really can't see how cooperating with Russia will have much in the way of economic benefits to the US. We aren't hurting for oil resources.
Our own Arctic claims are quite clear and defensible (Prudhoe Bay and all). The real sticky claims and oil are between Canada and Denmark and Norway. Russia wants to claim a whole lot more area than I think they can support with a strait face. Prince Josef Land is actually a Norwegian initial claim that the Soviets illegally moved in on in the 1930's and set up research stations and (lately) wildlife preserves for narwhals/ (RIIIIIGGGGHHHHTTT). Norway has Svalbard just next door as a solid claim nd Denmark, of course, has all of Greenland.So most of the claims arguments will be between those guys
So far, most of the petroleum play areas are on the Greenlnd through Canadin and US side.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 16 Dec, 2016 10:09 am
@farmerman,
15 of the 30 states that Trump won have laws that bind the electors to the popular vote. 15 do not.

I guess we will just have to stand back and let this lying poser take the oath and then wait for his bipartisan impeachment when he refuses to deal with his required disclosures or "emoluments". Those could easily be considered "misdemeanors" or even "high crimes" Remember Nixons letter of impeachment would have been overwhelmingly bipartisan.(BUT, he avoided it all by resigning)

0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  3  
Reply Fri 16 Dec, 2016 11:24 am
Republican National Committee Security Foiled Russian Hackers
Investigation calls it a less aggressive and much less persistent effort than the hacks of the Democratic National Committee



The Russian hackers tried to get into Republican National Committee internet servers as well as the Democratic ones, but apparently, their attempts were half hearted and failed to get passed the servers' security measures.

Quote:
A senior U.S. official said analysts now believe what started as an information-gathering campaign aimed at both parties later took on a focus of leaked emails about Mrs. Clinton and Democrats.
...
RNC officials, concerned they too might have been compromised, called a private computer security firm, which in turn called the FBI and obtained information about what kinds of malicious emails to look for, the person said. Upon inspection, the RNC found that its electronic filters had blocked emails sent to a former employee matching the description they’d been warned about.
The apparently successful blocking of a Russian espionage operation offers one possible explanation why the GOP’s main political organization didn’t suffer the same fate as its Democratic counterpart—a deluge of leaked emails revealing private correspondence and internal strategy.
...
“It would be naive [for Republicans] to think they weren’t targeted,” said Michael Buratowski, a senior vice president at Fidelis Cybersecurity, which examined the DNC breach and attributed it to the Russian hackers.
“It doesn’t surprise me at all that they were gone after,” Mr. Buratowski said, because the hackers in question have demonstrated over many years a voracious appetite for information. The two groups have been linked to earlier incursions at U.S. government agencies, including the State Department and the White House.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Fri 16 Dec, 2016 11:33 am
https://www.thenation.com/article/why-are-the-media-taking-the-cias-hacking-claims-at-face-value/
Meanwhile, much of the media has ignored the rather salient fact that the FBI is by no means in agreement with the anonymous and secret CIA assessment that Russia interfered with the election in order to help elect Donald Trump.

Nor, for that matter, is the Office of the Director for National Intelligence (ODNI), which has declined to endorse the CIA report. This is perhaps less surprising than it first might seem, considering that as recently as November 17 ODNI Director James Clapper testified before the House Intelligence Committee and acknowledged that “as far as the WikiLeaks connection, the evidence there is not as strong and we don’t have good insight into the sequencing of the releases or when the data may have been provided.”

Indeed, evidence of a connection between the Russian government and the hackers that are believed to have stolen the DNC/John Podesta e-mails remains illusory. Cyber-security expert Jeffrey Carr has observed that “there is ZERO technical evidence to connect those Russian-speaking hackers to the GRU, FSB, SVR, or any other Russian government department.” The very real possibility that non-state actors carried out the hack of the DNC has been conspicuously absent from the mainstream narrative of “Russian interference.”

And so, while the Russian government certainly could have been behind the DNC/Podesta e-mail hack, the possibility that it originated elsewhere should not be so easily dismissed. After all, Wikileaks founder Julian Assange has repeatedly denied that Russia was the source of the DNC/Podesta emails, while a former British ambassador who is close to Assange has said the source of the e-mails is “an insider. It’s a leak, not a hack.”

But that hasn’t prevented the media from treating the anonymous, unverified claims of both The Washington Post and The New York Times, both based on a CIA “secret assessment,” as gospel.

MEDIA RUSHES TO DEFEND THE CIA
Last weekend, the influential Sunday morning talk shows took Trump to task for his dismissal of the CIA’s “secret assessment.” An incredulous George Stephanopoulos asked incoming White House Chief of Staff Reince Priebus: “How is a President Trump going to work with intelligence agencies if he doesn’t trust their work?”

“I want to know,” Stephanopoulos demanded, “why President-elect Trump doesn’t believe the conclusions of 17 intelligence agencies.”

On Face the Nation, Time magazine’s Michael Duffy said the CIA’s finding was “deeply disturbing” because “it means that Russia attacked the United States.” Duffy also expressed “shock” that Trump has “drawn a fairly dark cloud over his relationship with the intelligence community on whom he will rely and need as president.”

And over at NBC’s Meet the Press, moderator Chuck Todd warned viewers that the issue of Russian interference “is not about the results of the election, it’s about a hostile foreign government trying to influence our election.” Todd thought it “remarkable” that Donald Trump decided “to side with a foreign government over our own chief intelligence agency.”

THE STAKES ARE HIGHER NOW THAN EVER. GET THE NATION IN YOUR INBOX.


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“Donald Trump,” he concluded, has “declared war on the intelligence community.”

The respected liberal columnist E.J. Dionne also sprung to the defense of the CIA’s honor in his column for The Washington Post on Monday. “When The Post revealed the CIA’s conclusions about Russia,” Dionne opined, “Trump’s response was to insult the CIA.” Still more alarming to Dionne, is that Trump would have the audacity to “happily trash our own CIA.”

Meanwhile, on Tuesday, December 13, liberal stalwart Keith Olbermann went much further. In a commentary for GQ he warned that “the nation and all of our freedoms hang by a thread. And the military apparatus of this country is about to be handed over to scum who are beholden to scum, Russian scum.” He then tweeted his considered belief that “If @realDonaldTrump will ignore CIA to listen instead to Russians, it’s treason.”

The working assumption here seems to be that the job of the president (and apparently of media outlets like CNN and The Washington Post) is to stand, salute, and never question Langley.

IN LANGLEY WE TRUST?
The high-profile anchors and analysts on CNN, CBS, ABC, and NBC who have cited the work of The Washington Post and The New York Times seem to have come down with a bad case of historical amnesia.

The CIA, in their telling, is a bulwark of American democracy, not a largely unaccountable, out-of-control behemoth that has often sought to subvert press freedom at home and undermine democratic norms abroad.

The columnists, anchors, and commentators who rushed to condemn Trump for not showing due deference to the CIA seem to be unaware that, throughout its history, the agency has been the target of far more astute and credible critics than the president-elect.
 

 
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