Pre-teen: Difficulty finding punishment to match action

I was an only child and we moved around the country several times. My mother had worked in the Hollywood studios in the thirties and at one point with a home furnishing designer, Mr. Something - I almost remember the name. Anyway, when I came along, that was it for close to two decades, after which she went back to work. I don't remember ever having a baby sitter except once, when I was, what? I'll guess ten, and they were going out for a possibly long night. I remember that that was quite weird to me. They left me alone some of the time, given Mrs. Hennessy was across the street and we had a telephone, but just that one time, they didn't know how long they'd be gone.

I don't remember being always with my mother. She did get to do stuff. What I'm remembering is our street in Evanston with four mildly close families, and people took turns watching the kids. Two families had one kid, mine and another; one had four, with quite amazing parents; one had fourteen, and they lived in a house paid for by the church. Two of these kids later taught at tribal reservations, including our friend from the 14.

We were roamers too, as we got older, first roller skating and later bicycling the town, fairly independent together. I credit that time there as part of any sanity I maintain.

Opining the door? not for a stranger. I still don't.

Well, I have reported here twice - once was the neighbors trying to tell me the house next door was on fire, and the other was a woman from down the street that I had never seen before hysterical about her son, frantic, jail. I did open it, we talked and I was probably useless on what to do, but was an ear. That one was around midnight. No invite in, but that wasn't what she wanted anyway... it was what to do. I never saw her again, no idea of what happened.

Then why did you make that blanket statement about an 11 year old?

Bravo! Enough said. You're the only one making sense on this thread.

Because 11 year old kids are usually a bit young to understand... I make that assumption because I not only have raised a kid, I also have and I still am are around kids that age. You?

The other statement was in reference to your post that you (Chai) could be trusted with just about everything at the age of 8 and I kindly said, that it depends on the child. I have no interest in arguing with you what you could do at the age of whatnot.....bottom line is that you're probably not the norm.

The National SAFEKIDS Campaign recommends that no child under the age of 12 be left at home alone.

Sounds like one more vote for birth control.

Yes, by all means, roger: people who don't want kids should do everything in their power to use contraceptives and avoid kids at all cost

Hey, that's why I have a cat instead of a dog. Cat neither knows nor cares if I'm not home.

The National SAFEKIDS Campaign is playing on irrational fears. It is nonsense. My 11 year old has been staying home alone for a couple of years... we started out with a half hour at a time, and then increased that as she was comfortable. When we first let her stay home alone, she would beg for us to stay out longer because she appreciated the chance to practice being mature.

It really is a matter of parents talking to, and understanding their kids.

My daughter knows how to use a telephone. And at first I didn't let her do any cooking while she was home alone. There is nothing else that presents a real danger to her.

There is nothing dangerous about this for many kids. And the parents (not some public interest groups) are the people to know what is best for kids.

Somehow between the 1970s (when I grew up) and now, parents have become obsessively worried about everything even though statistically kids are safer than ever.

I spent a little time reading the National SAFEKIDS website. For the record, it is mostly pretty sane. They are focusing on the real dangers (car safety rather than "stranger danger"). I appreciate that.

Their biking advice to "stay as far to the right as possible" is a little wrong. The most important thing while biking on the road is to "be visible" and "be predictable". Staying as far to the right as possible means you won't be visible... and weaving in and out of parked cars is far more dangerous than riding more to the left and moving in a straight line.

Other than the home alone thing, and the biking quibble... and a being a little overzealous on helmets and kneepads... I don't think this website is too crazy.

I wanted to say that for fairness after my previous post.

Things really changed at the time of Johnny Gosch's kidnapping, which was in 1982. Just watched a documentary of that on NF. Really interesting, worth the watch.

Practically overnight people when from the usual, to fear tat their kid would be picked up by sex traffickers at any moment. The mom kept the story in the news, never let up on the police, which was a really good thing of course.

Of course I have to wonder why metaphorically the day before seemingly no parent was that aware that kids would go missing.

But then again, how could I know anything, because I never had a kid spring from my loins......oh wait a minute, not everyone with a child did either.

It's so weird to me that people like me get bingo'd with "You wouldn't know, you never had a child" Even about someone who let's say was very involved with the day to day care of a niece, nephew, etc. Maybe even having primary care of one while parents worked. (Not me of course, I had little interest in all that with them).

Yet, you sign adoption papers and suddenly you're a full member of the "you wouldn't understand" club.

Other people somehow have some sort of cred, and "understand", even if they don't have kids themselves, like teachers, day care workers, pediatricians... the list goes on and on.

We've got both a teacher and a mental health worker who are both apparantly child free by choice, but their word is gold.

I readily state I never had any interest in having a child. But that's really beside the point.

I've literally known someone 10 minutes before getting asked if I have kids, and with the simple answer "no", suddenly could never possibly deal with or understand anything. That's without knowing if I've been teacher of the year for 20 years straight, a child phychologist, etc.

What I can't understand is that somehow a generally shitty parent is somehow still ranked by society as mysteriously superior in the realm of childrens care and interest in their welfare, to any person without a child.

In any event, yeah, by the time a kid is 11, I think in general they should be able to handle being left to their own devices for an hour or 2.

Forgot to take our happy pills this morning?

Yes, I signed adoption papers, did probably more for society than you ever will, but I am not interested in your rants, Chai. Keep them!

Jeez CalamityJane. That last post seemed unnecessarily nasty.

I am interested in what Chai has to say.

Jane, and others, just gets shaken when her world view is even slightly challenged. I don't mind, it's a predictible type response when cliches that are just supposed to be thoughtlessly believed don't shut someone up.

It's scary to think you can't censor someone by throwing out phrases akin to "you wouldn't understand" and because you personally don't want to hear them, that means you can't express yourself to anyone.

I would be remiss to both myself and others if I just meekly agreed to whatever crap is being thrown out there, like trying to convince people you just didn't say 2 contradictory things, for the sake of not rocking the boat, upsetting someone for calling them on their attempts to make things disappear.

It's the way of the world.