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If You Were God - Would you Repeat?

 
 
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2016 11:35 am
Would you, given the hypothetical position of God (Omnipotent/present, creator, etc) Repeat creation 'moreover' in its exactitude, taking into consideration the balance between all that begat, both splendidity and abomination?

Loosely put - Would you allow each and every torment that ever was - To reoccur for the sake of that which you feel is worthy of 'reincarnation'?

I.e 'For the sake of your child's first smile, steps, words - Very existence even - Would YOU allow every horror that ever preceded 'Now' to happen again?

Cheers!
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Type: Question • Score: 2 • Views: 1,408 • Replies: 43
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giujohn
 
  0  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2016 12:27 pm
Who told you I wasn't God?
dalehileman
 
  2  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2016 01:07 pm
@mark noble,
Mark I don't think She has much choice, if you endorse "free will"
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2016 01:40 pm
@dalehileman,
dalehileman wrote:

Mark I don't think She has much choice, if you endorse "free will"


This free will thing is silly.

Take for example the angels. Supposedly god created the angels before humans but the angels didnt have free will. Yet some were jealous of humans who had free will so they rebelled against god and fell. Isnt that free will? How can you be jealous and rebel without free will?

The whole thing is convoluted and free will concept is poorly understood.

You dont need torture, diseases, murder, and suffering for free will. That is absurd. However; if you think this current system is open for free will you are wrong.

You cant say you are free to decide and then lump on rewards or punishments and call it free will.

I will give you this winning lottery ticket worth a hundred million dollars but first you need to kill this litter of puppys.

Now are you biased for the reward or can you forgive yourself killing cute puppys?

The ONLY way you could truly have free will is if there was no reward or punishment biasing your choice.
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2016 04:03 pm
@Krumple,
Quote:
This free will thing is silly....concept is poorly understood
Not at all. I suppose a book could easily be written on the subject

Quote:
You dont need torture, diseases, murder, and suffering for free will
Things happening with or without free will

Quote:
if you think this current system is open for free will you are wrong.
I dunno one way or t'other. But the notion of no freedom whatever troubles me. It means that at the instant of creation She must have known the whole story in advance

On the other hand absolute causation hasn't yet been refuted. Maybe there's something wrong based on our usage of language, something anthropomorphic
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2016 04:11 pm
@dalehileman,
dalehileman wrote:
I dunno one way or t'other. But the notion of no freedom whatever troubles me. It means that at the instant of creation She must have known the whole story in advance


Yep. The entire thing can reduced to a game of pool. On the surface it seems every game is unuque. However; if you could mimic the exact same attributes of the first game with the second, you would get the same results.

On a subatomic level everything that is going to happen had already been worked out to entirety. So you think you are making a choice but really the neurons and chemical process has already been preset for you to make the choice you make.
seac
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2016 04:30 pm
@mark noble,
If I was God, I would let it be known that I exist. But if I were to punish every human or beast for not behaving in the manner I wanted, they would all have been exterminated a long time ago.
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2016 05:02 pm
@Krumple,
Yea Krump so you're a determinist. Nothing wrong with that but isn't it sorta depressing
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2016 05:18 pm
@dalehileman,
dalehileman wrote:

Yea Krump so you're a determinist. Nothing wrong with that but isn't it sorta depressing


A movie has a set course, plot and action, dialog are all set. However the discovery of these things are the entertainment. I dont need freedom of the confinds of atoms and nuclear forces for me to enjoy their reveal in this short existence.
giujohn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2016 07:09 pm
@Krumple,
No...I disagree. In Quantum physics there is no determinacy. There exists the probability of all possible occurrences but nothing is pre determined.
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2016 07:25 pm
@giujohn,
giujohn wrote:

No...I disagree. In Quantum physics there is no determinacy. There exists the probability of all possible occurrences but nothing is pre determined.


Probability only arises when we are trying to explain an occurance. But this is due to a lack of information. We dont know all the factors so probability helps get around the unknown properties.

Uncertainty doesnt happen in reality.
giujohn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2016 07:52 pm
@Krumple,
Quote:

Uncertainty doesnt happen in reality


Once again I disagree... according to Heisenberg's principle it's very real...and provable over and over again.
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Oct, 2016 11:59 am
@Krumple,
Quote:
I dont need freedom....to enjoy their reveal ...
Well put Krump
0 Replies
 
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Oct, 2016 12:01 pm
@giujohn,
Quote:
nothing is pre determined
But John is that for sure...

So how'd you respond to Krump in a few common words forming usu order

...for the benefit of the Intellectually Disabled (me)
0 Replies
 
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Oct, 2016 02:22 pm
@giujohn,
giujohn wrote:

Quote:

Uncertainty doesnt happen in reality


Once again I disagree... according to Heisenberg's principle it's very real...and provable over and over again.


Here is an example of how probability doesnt work in reality.

You have two plates of glass aligned parallel ti each other. They are a few inches apart.

Now glass is simi-reflective. Meaning some of the light hitting the glass gets reflected and some of the light passes through.

It was thought that the light that got reflected was due to hitting imperfections in the glass or the atoms themselves. But this out not to be the case.

The question becomes how much light is tefected? And How does the photon determine if it will reflect or pass through the glass?

With one panel of glass you get roughly 4% refraction. However if you add a second panel parallel to the first you dont get 4% on the second panel. It surprisingly goes up! More light gets refracted on the second panel after passing through the first.

So what does this all mean. Well we use probability to figure out if ONE photon will pass through or get reflected. But when you attempt to use the same probability for the second panel it fails.

Now how can reality randomly decide which photon to reflect on the second panel? That makes no sense.

All the experiments suggested that the photon was predetermined to either reflect or pass through the second panel. It seems wacky to say. But this is the result when probabilty failed to sort out the detail percent refraction.

The first test you would get 9% refraction on the second panel.

The second test you would get 11% refraction on the second panel.

The third test you would get 7% refraction on the second panel.

Inconsistent.

However single panel always has 4% refraction.

Thickness of glass and their distance from each other was measurable. But for these tests thickness and distance remained unchanged.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Oct, 2016 04:46 pm
@mark noble,
Yep, it looks to be the optimum setup for what he wanted to accomplish.

What that was is key as well as what God can and can't do.

Where the **** did this 'Omnipotent' **** come from anyway?
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Oct, 2016 06:28 pm
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:

Yep, it looks to be the optimum setup for what he wanted to accomplish.

What that was is key as well as what God can and can't do.

Where the **** did this 'Omnipotent' **** come from anyway?


Its funny within christianity the story of Jacob states he physically wrestled with god not metaphorically. Not only did he wrestle god but he won. Although did suffer an injury.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Oct, 2016 08:42 pm
@Krumple,
Quote:

Its funny within christianity the story of Jacob states he physically wrestled with god not metaphorically. Not only did he wrestle god but he won. Although did suffer an injury.

I'll have to look up that story. The one time I decided to wrestle him I was sure I had him beat, but he kicked my ass. He was very kind about it though.
0 Replies
 
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Oct, 2016 11:38 am
@Krumple,
Quote:
really the neurons and chemical process has already been preset for you to make the choice you make.
Yea thanks Krump, yet we insist on free will. I maintain if God does exist, She doesn't have it
0 Replies
 
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Oct, 2016 11:39 am
@seac,
Quote:
would all have been exterminated a long time ago
Hence Seac the almost certainty of free will
0 Replies
 
 

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