3
   

Imam shot and killed in New York City and the ironic aftermath

 
 
MontereyJack
 
  3  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2016 08:06 am
@giujohn,
And we gave you just the first of many pages of Muslim believers and leaders who passionately denounce terrorism, which you refused to read. They don't control who the TV news shows pick, but they use the media outlets they can get access to. I sincerely doubt, for example, that any network news show would give you any airtime for your extremist views, why do you expect they'd give more time for other viewpoints?
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  3  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2016 08:13 am
@giujohn,
So I have a comprehension problem?

Could you point to where you specifically asked for instances of Muslim leaders passionately denouncing radical terrorists?

Let me post the relevant part of your first post.
Quote:
Absolutely.

I wonder then why law-abiding non radical islamists do not follow that advice, when they witness the atrocities perpetrated by people who have hijacked their religion, by coming out publicly and passionately in a televised statement to denounce the vicious hate-filled murder and terror visited upon the people of this and other countries.

Hypocritical?

What say you?


You didn't ask for anything about "instances of Muslim leaders denouncing terrorism." Perhaps you don't understand what a question is. You made a statement that was false. Then when it was pointed out to be false you now pretend you asked a question you never asked.

Since I have a comprehension problem point out your question you are now claiming you asked. I will be happy to admit I have such a problem when you can point to your specific question prior to the list of articles you were presented.
MontereyJack
 
  3  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2016 08:36 am
@giujohn,
Maybe the question you should be asking yourself is why the media you pay attention to are keeping you in the dark about the many loud Moslem condemnations of terror.
giujohn
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2016 08:42 am
@parados,
parados wrote:

So I have a comprehension problem?

Could you point to where you specifically asked for instances of Muslim leaders passionately denouncing radical terrorists?

Let me post the relevant part of your first post.
Quote:
Absolutely.

I wonder then why law-abiding non radical islamists do not follow that advice, when they witness the atrocities perpetrated by people who have hijacked their religion, by coming out publicly and passionately in a televised statement to denounce the vicious hate-filled murder and terror visited upon the people of this and other countries.

Hypocritical?

What say you?


You didn't ask for anything about "instances of Muslim leaders denouncing terrorism." Perhaps you don't understand what a question is. You made a statement that was false. Then when it was pointed out to be false you now pretend you asked a question you never asked.

Since I have a comprehension problem point out your question you are now claiming you asked. I will be happy to admit I have such a problem when you can point to your specific question prior to the list of articles you were presented.


Uh... seems pretty clear to me what was being asked. What's false is your attempt at being pedantic. Or maybe it's my fault for being too subtle when dealing with the obtuse.
giujohn
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2016 08:44 am
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:

Maybe the question you should be asking yourself is why the media you pay attention to are keeping you in the dark about the many loud Moslem condemnations of terror.


Once again, direct me to report on CNN MSNBC CBS NBC or ABC News that you're referring to
MontereyJack
 
  3  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2016 09:00 am
@giujohn,
can you read? apparently not.
giujohn
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2016 09:08 am
@MontereyJack,
Sure can... I'm just waiting for you to direct me to those news reports.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2016 09:15 am
@MontereyJack,
With the exception of CNN, these are not MSM outlets - and Cair? Give me a break.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2016 09:17 am
@nimh,
Perhaps. It's difficult for me to reconcile the fact the MSM bends over backwards to avoid implicating Muslims in terrorist attacks and neglecting to feature Muslim protestations against terror.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  3  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2016 09:41 am
@giujohn,
You rsupposition and Finn's was that since you haven't heard denunciations that they don't exist. Google Search proves that that supposition is wrong. Denunciations exist in plenty. As to why you haven't heard them, several possibilities present themselves. 1. You only pay attention to right wing sources, which are notably unreliable. 2. You have a selective attention span. or 3. The media you list have been ignoring the news that is out there. I suspect it's a combination of all three. You and I have no control over what news the media choose to feasture, however the fact remains that Moslems DO AND HAVE in great numbers condemned terrorism. Them's the facts, maate.
giujohn
 
  0  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2016 09:45 am
@MontereyJack,
Then it should be easy for you to direct me to the news reports in the mainstream media... CNN MSNBC CBS NBC and ABC News showing Muslim leaders either in the United States or abroad who are passionately and unequivocally denouncing Isis and their caliphate for the atrocities of sharia law.
parados
 
  3  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2016 10:13 am
@giujohn,
First of all a question requires a question mark for it to actually be a question. Nothing wrong with my reading comprehension. It seems you don't understand the basic rules of English grammar.

There is nothing there about you asking for instances of this happening. There is only you stating that it never happens which is a flat out lie. The citations of many stories talking about Muslims coming out against radical terrorists shows the lie in your statement.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  4  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2016 10:19 am
@giujohn,
It seems you are as stupid as you appear to be here.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/4937682126001/muslim-leaders-condemn-nightclub-shooting-isis/?#sp=show-clips

http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2016/06/12/orlando-shootings-muslim-leader.cnn

http://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2015/11/16/bts-amanpour-muslims-condemn-isis-paris-attacks.cnn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qozO3CcXk5M

http://mediamatters.org/video/2016/06/13/cnn-islamic-society-central-floridas-imam-musri-condemns-strongest-terms-orlando-attack/210896
giujohn
 
  0  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2016 11:20 am
@parados,
So let me see if I've got this right your argument is primarily based solely on a statement made by CAIR?

Kind of like asking the fox to investigate chicken stealing isn't it.



Critics of CAIR have accused it of having ties to Hamas. Federal Judge Jorge A. Solis said that there was evidence to show that CAIR has an association with the Holy Land Foundation, Islamic Association for Palestine, and Hamas. However, Judge Solis acknowledged that this evidence predates the official designation of these groups as terrorist organizations.[70]

Critics of CAIR, including six members of the U.S. House of Representatives and Senate,[71][72][73] have alleged ties between the CAIR founders and Hamas. The founders, Omar Ahmad and Nihad Awad, had earlier been officers of the Islamic Association of Palestine (IAP) and were described by a former FBI analyst and a US Treasury Department intelligence official as "intimately tied to the most senior Hamas leadership."[74] Both Ahmad and Awad participated in a meeting held in Philadelphia on October 3, 1993, and this meeting involved senior leaders of Hamas, the IAP, and the Holy Land Foundation (which was designated in 1995 by Executive Order, and later designated in court, as an organization that had raised millions of dollars for Hamas).[75][76][77] Based on electronic surveillance of the meeting, the FBI reported that "the participants went to great length and expended much effort hiding their association with the Islamic Resistance Movement [Hamas]."[78]

One participant at the meeting, former Holy Land CEO Shukri Abu Baker, said more secular, mainstream organizations were needed in America, "which can benefit from a new atmosphere, one whose Islamic hue is not very conspicuous."[79] Critics also point to a July 1994 meeting identifying CAIR as one of the four U.S. organizations comprising the working organizations of the Palestine Committee of the U.S. Muslim Brotherhood, the parent organization and supporter of Hamas.[80][81][82]

The Anti-Defamation League states that CAIR's work as a civil rights organization is tainted by past links to Hamas, sometime failure to condemn terrorist organizations by name, and the presence of anti-Semites at some of its rallies.[83] Steven Emerson has accused CAIR of having a long record of propagating anti-Semitic propaganda.[42][84] Journalist Jake Tapper criticizes CAIR for refusing to condemn specifically Osama bin Laden and Islamic extremism, but rather making only vague and generic criticisms.[85][page needed] CAIR acknowledges that Nihad Awad declared support for Hamas in 1994. It notes that Hamas was only designated a terrorist organization in January 1995 and did not commit its first wave of suicide bombings until late 1994, after Awad made the comment.[86][87] Since then CAIR has denounced violence by Hamas, and in 2006 Nihad Awad said, "I don't support Hamas today ... we condemn suicide bombings."[86]

As of 2007, FBI officials attended CAIR events. In 2009, Fox News said that the FBI broke off formal outreach contacts with CAIR, and shunned all of its local chapters, concerned about CAIR's ties to Hamas.[40] In 2011, the New York Times said that while the FBI and CAIR had no "formal relationship", CAIR officials and chapters worked regularly with FBI officials


But there is another side to CAIR that has alarmed many people in positions to know. The Department of Homeland Security refuses to deal with it. Senator Charles Schumer (Democrat, New York) describes it as an organization "which we know has ties to terrorism."[3] Senator Dick Durbin (Democrat, Illinois) observes that CAIR is "unusual in its extreme rhetoric and its associations with groups that are suspect."[4] Steven Pomerantz, the FBI's former chief of counterterrorism, notes that "CAIR, its leaders, and its activities effectively give aid to international terrorist groups."[5] The family of John P. O'Neill, Sr., the former FBI counterterrorism chief who perished at the World Trade Center, named CAIR in a lawsuit as having "been part of the criminal conspiracy of radical Islamic terrorism"[6] responsible for the September 11 atrocities. Counterterrorism expert Steven Emerson calls it "a radical fundamentalist front group for Hamas

Perhaps the most obvious problem with CAIR is the fact that at least five of its employees and board members have been arrested, convicted, deported, or otherwise linked to terrorism-related charges and activities.

Randall ("Ismail") Royer, an American convert to Islam, served as CAIR's communications specialist and civil rights coordinator; today he sits in jail on terrorism-related charges. In June 2003, Royer and ten other young men, ages 23 to 35, known as the "Virginia jihad group," were indicted on forty-one counts of "conspiracy to train for and participate in a violent jihad overseas." The defendants, nine of them U.S. citizens, were accused of association with Lashkar-e-Taiba, a radical Islamic group designated as a foreign terrorist organization by the U.S. Department of State in 2001. They were also accused of meeting covertly in private homes and at the Islamic Center in Falls Church to prepare themselves for battle by listening to lectures and watching videotapes.[21] As the prosecutor noted, "Ten miles from Capitol Hill in the streets of northern Virginia, American citizens allegedly met, plotted, and recruited for violent jihad."[22] According to Matthew Epstein of the Investigative Project, Royer helped recruit the others to the jihad effort while he was working for CAIR. The group trained at firing ranges in Virginia and Pennsylvania; in addition, it practiced "small-unit military tactics" at a paintball war-games facility in Virginia, earning it the moniker, the "paintball jihadis."[23] Eventually members of the group traveled to Pakistan.

Five of the men indicted, including CAIR's Royer, were found to have had in their possession, according to the indictment, "AK-47-style rifles, telescopic lenses, hundreds of rounds of ammunition and tracer rounds, documents on undertaking jihad and martyrdom, [and] a copy of the terrorist handbook containing instructions on how to manufacture and use explosives and chemicals as weapons."[24]

After four of the eleven defendants pleaded guilty, the remaining seven, including Royer, were accused in a new, 32-count indictment of yet more serious charges: conspiring to help Al-Qaeda and the Taliban battle American troops in Afghanistan.[25] Royer admitted in his grand jury testimony that he had already waged jihad in Bosnia under a commander acting on orders from Osama bin Laden. Prosecutors also presented evidence that his father, Ramon Royer, had rented a room in his St. Louis-area home in 2000 to Ziyad Khaleel, the student who purchased the satellite phone used by Al-Qaeda in planning the two U.S. embassy bombings in East Africa in August 1998.[26] Royer eventually pleaded guilty to lesser firearms-related charges, and the former CAIR staffer was sentenced to twenty years in prison.[27]

A coda to the "Virginia jihad network" came in 2005 when a Federal court convicted another Virginia man, Ahmed Omar Abu Ali, of plotting to kill President Bush. Prosecutors alleged that Abu Ali participated in the Virginia jihad network's paintball games and perhaps supplied one of his fellow jihadists with an assault rifle.[28] Royer's possible role in Abu Ali's plans are unclear.

Ghassan Elashi, the founder of CAIR's Texas chapter, has a long history of funding terrorism. First, he was convicted in July 2004, with his four brothers, of having illegally shipped computers from their Dallas-area business, InfoCom Corporation, to two designated state-sponsors of terrorism, Libya and Syria.[29] Second, he and two brothers were convicted in April 2005 of knowingly doing business with Mousa Abu Marzook, a senior Hamas leader, whom the U.S. State Department had in 1995 declared a "specially designated terrorist." Elashi was convicted of all twenty-one counts with which he was charged, including conspiracy, money laundering, and dealing in the property of a designated terrorist.[30] Third, he was charged in July 2004 with providing more than $12.4 million to Hamas while he was running the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development, America's largest Islamic charity.[31] When the U.S. government shuttered Holy Land Foundation in late 2001, CAIR characterized this move as "unjust" and "disturbing."[32]

Bassem Khafagi, an Egyptian native and CAIR's onetime community relations director, pleaded guilty in September 2003 to lying on his visa application and passing bad checks for substantial amounts in early 2001,[33] for which he was deported. CAIR claimed Khafagi was hired only after he had committed his crimes and that the organization was unaware of his wrongdoing.[34] But that is unconvincing, for a cursory background check reveals that Khafagi was a founding member and president of the Islamic Assembly of North America (IANA),[35] an organization under investigation by the U.S. Department of Justice for terrorism-related activities. CAIR surely knew that IANA under Khafagi was in the business of, as prosecutors stated in Idaho court papers, disseminating "radical Islamic ideology, the purpose of which was indoctrination, recruitment of members, and the instigation of acts of violence and terrorism."[36]

For example, IANA websites promoted the views of two Saudi preachers, Salman al-Awdah and Safar al-Hawali, well-known in Islamist circles for having been spiritual advisors to Osama bin Laden.[37] Under Khafagi's leadership, Matthew Epstein has testified, IANA hosted a conference at which a senior Al-Qaeda recruiter, Abdelrahman al-Dosari, was a speaker.[38] IANA disseminated publications advocating suicide attacks against the United States, according to federal investigators.[39]

Also, Khafagi was co-owner of a Sir Speedy printing franchise until 1998 with Rafil Dhafir, who was a former vice president of IANA and a Syracuse-area oncologist convicted in February 2005 of illegally sending money to Iraq during the Saddam Hussein regime as well as defrauding donors by using contributions to his "Help the Needy" charitable fund to avoid taxes and to purchase personal assets for himself. Dhafir was sentenced to twenty-two years in prison.[40]

Rabih Haddad, a CAIR fundraiser, was arrested in December 2001 on terrorism-related charges and deported from the United States due to his subsequent work as executive director of the Global Relief Foundation, a charity he cofounded[41] which was designated by the U.S. Treasury Department in October 2002 for financing Al-Qaeda and other terrorist organizations.[42]

Siraj Wahhaj, a CAIR advisory board member, was named in 1995 by U.S. attorney Mary Jo White as a possible unindicted coconspirator in the plot to blow up New York City landmarks led by the blind sheikh, Omar Abdul Rahman. In defense of having Wahhaj on its advisory board, CAIR described him as "one of the most respected Muslim leaders in America."[43] In October 2004, he spoke at a CAIR dinner.

This roster of employees and board members connected to terrorism makes one wonder how CAIR remains an acceptable guest at U.S. government events—and even more so, how U.S. law enforcement agencies continue to associate with it.

Links to Hamas

CAIR has a number of links to the terror organization Hamas, starting with the founder of its Texas chapter, Ghassan Elashi, as noted above.

Secondly, Elashi and another CAIR founder, Omar Ahmad, attended a key meeting in Philadelphia in 1993. An FBI memo characterizes this meeting as a planning session for Hamas, Holy Land Foundation, and Islamic Association of Palestine to find ways to disrupt Israeli-Palestinian diplomacy and raise money for Hamas in the United States.[44] The Philadelphia meeting was deemed such strong proof of Islamic Association of Palestine's relation to Hamas that a federal judge in Chicago in December 2004 ruled the Islamic Association of Palestine partially liable for US$156 million in damages (along with the Holy Land Foundation and Mohammad Salah, a Hamas operative)[45] for having aided and abetted the Hamas murder of David Boim, an American citizen.[46]

Third, CAIR's founding personnel were closely linked to the Islamic Association of Palestine, which was founded by Ibrahim Abu Marzook, a senior Hamas operative and husband of Elashi's cousin; according to Epstein, the Islamic Association of Palestine functions as Hamas's public relations and recruitment arm in the United States.[47] The two individuals who established CAIR, Ahmad and Nihad Awad, had been, respectively, the president and public relations director of the Islamic Association of Palestine. Hooper, CAIR's director of communications, had been an employee of the Islamic Association of Palestine.[48] Rafeeq Jabar, president of the Islamic Association of Palestine, was a founding director of CAIR.

Fourth, the Holy Land Foundation, which the U.S. government has charged with funneling funds to Hamas, provided CAIR with some of its start-up funding in 1994. (See $5,000 money transfer, figure 1.) In the other direction, according to Joe Kaufman, CAIR sent potential donors to the Holy Land Foundation's website when they clicked on their post-September 11 weblink, "Donate to the NY/DC Disaster Relief Fund."[49]

Fifth, Awad publicly declared his enthusiasm for Hamas at Barry University in Florida in 1994: "I'm in support of Hamas movement more than the PLO." As an attorney pointed out in the course of deposing Awad for the Boim case, Awad both supported Hamas and acknowledged an awareness of its involvement in violence.
parados
 
  4  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2016 11:25 am
@giujohn,
You didn't bother to check out the links, did you?

You seem to be attempting to keep moving the goal posts.
First you make a false statement.
Then you claim the statement was really a question.
Then you move from "on television" to only major news stations.
Now you are stating that leaders of Islam that condemn terrorists are really terrorists themselves.

The problem isn't with Muslims, it is with your inability to think or act in a reasonable fashion. You have set a standard that NO group could meet but you are only applying it to Muslims.
parados
 
  4  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2016 11:29 am
@giujohn,
Quote:
Kind of like asking the fox to investigate chicken stealing isn't it.


No, Cair doesn't investigate anything.
Your statement would be similar to asking the police to investigate police misconduct.
0 Replies
 
giujohn
 
  0  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2016 11:31 am
@parados,
Oh I most certainly listened to the leader of CAIR. And it would have been a wonderful speech and a wonderful thing if given by an organization that didn't a history of ties to terrorism.

I recall Al Capone giving numerous news conferences saying how he was just a businessman and contributing to the betterment of the community in Chicago.
parados
 
  4  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2016 11:39 am
@giujohn,
Yes, and you didn't follow any of the other links to listen to those that are not leaders of CAIR.

You seem to want to prove you are stupid, don't you?
parados
 
  3  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2016 11:47 am
@giujohn,
The funny thing is you never once saw Capone on TV making that claim while he was committing crimes. In fact, you never would have seen Capone on any TV news program making a statement of any sort.

You continue to prove you have no facts but only your own prejudices.
0 Replies
 
giujohn
 
  0  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2016 12:19 pm
@parados,
Oh you mean the lady with a bullhorn from Dearborn Michigan?


Middle East and Terrorism
 ▼
Friday, February 5, 2016
DHS and the Dearborn Muslim Community: A Relationship on the Rocks? - Johanna Markind


by Johanna Markind


A group that tells its constituents, 'If the FBI contacts you, contact us,' isn't the right partner for U.S. law enforcement.


CAIR Michigan's website includes this exhortation to make CAIR the first phone call of people contacted by the FBI. Is that what DHS wants?
On January 13, Department of Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson trekked to Dearborn, Michigan, where he spoke to students and law enforcement at the University of Michigan – Dearborn about the department's efforts to engage the Muslim community. He also met privately with student leaders in a meeting closed to media.

Reportedly, Johnson did not meet with leaders of the local Muslim community. He did say that he was "open to the idea of meeting with faith leaders in the future," but it still seems odd, considering DHS billed the talk's subject as community engagement.
It's possible the secretary was simply too busy. He may have thought the students were more of a priority, given the youth of so many people attracted to ISIS and other terrorist groups, and felt he could not take the additional time needed to meet with community leaders.

Or perhaps there is more to it. Johnson's message included this plea to Muslims: "Terrorist organizations... seek to pull your youth into the pit of violent extremism. Help us to help you stop this... If you see someone turning toward violence, say something. Say something to law enforcement, or to one of your community or religious leaders."

Contrast the secretary's comments with a poster on the website of the Council on American-Islamic Relations' Michigan chapter, exhorting readers, "If the FBI contacts you, contact us." The poster supplies CAIR-Michigan's telephone number, 248-559-2247. While the FBI is part of the Department of Justice rather than the Department of Homeland Security, the message is consistent with CAIR's oppositional attitude regarding government efforts to counter violent Islamism, including its opposition to a bill that would fund DHS counter-extremism efforts. The Arab American Institute has likewise been critical of government efforts to counter "violent extremism."



Imam Mohammad Ali Elahi, leader of the Islamic House of Wisdom in Dearborn Heights, denies the connection between Islam and Islamist violence.
Local Muslim religious leaders like Imam Mohammad Ali Elahi, leader of the Islamic House of Wisdom in Dearborn Heights, have also denied a connection between Islam and the crimes of violent Islamists.

Unlike, for example, Egyptian President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, who has called for a religious revolution within Islam, or the recently launched Muslim Reform Movement, which openly states it is in a "battle for the soul of Islam," Elahi speaks of Islam as a victim of Islamist terrorists and urges, "Don't blame Islam for the evil actions of its enemies."



Johnson parroted the administration's party line, "The very essence of the Islamic faith is peace," but also called on the community to speak up against extremism in order to counter ISIS. The administration has received pushback on the latter request from groups like CAIR, and it also seems contrary to the message of Elahi and other religious leaders in the Dearborn area.

For all the administration's bending over backward to include Muslim groups like CAIR and its fellow travelers within the Muslim community, perhaps the latters' efforts to obstruct government anti-terror efforts are beginning to register within the administration. Maybe the secretary thought a group that tells its constituents, "If the FBI contacts you, contact us," wasn't the right partner for a talk urging listeners, "if you see something, say something to law enforcement." Perhaps Johnson decided the leadership of the local Muslim community in and around Dearborn is a bit too radicalized and uncooperative to make engagement with them productive, and has written them off as a practical reality
 

 
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