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Germany: East<>West gap growing?

 
 
Duke of Lancaster
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 02:45 am
ohh Lord, why don't they just build a wall between north and south Germany. I mean, it'll make perfect sense. They both speak a different kind of German or dialect.
I don't know what they want anymore.
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Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 02:47 am
Your humour is welcome, Duke of Lancaster.
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satt fs
 
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Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 03:19 am
I have seen a piece of brick from the fallen wall of Berlin; a piece of whitish mass of crude soil. If someone were to make a new wall (!), one would use soil of better quality or none..
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Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 06:15 am
Well, when the the wall during the "active" time, it was of concrete stones.

http://www.berlinermauer.se/bilder4/b_mur10.jpg
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satt fs
 
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Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 06:28 am
My impression was that it was impromptu and of very crude material. It was destined to fall from the beginning.
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Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 06:32 am
We thought different, especially those, who tried to pass it.
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satt fs
 
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Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 06:35 am
My impression is the one after it (the wall) has fallen down.
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Steve 41oo
 
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Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 06:37 am
Doesn't seem that imposing Walter. I thought the DDR had a good pole-vaulting team...but I suppose the mine fields and barbed wire would be a hinderance.
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nimh
 
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Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 06:51 am
satt_fs wrote:
My impression was that it was impromptu and of very crude material. It was destined to fall from the beginning.

LOL, it didn't fall because of what material it was built of! Razz
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satt fs
 
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Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 06:51 am
The good thing of the wall, ironically, was that it could easily fall down. Mine fields would not.. I think the former had more virtue (dark humor).
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satt fs
 
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Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 06:52 am
nimh wrote:
satt_fs wrote:
My impression was that it was impromptu and of very crude material. It was destined to fall from the beginning.

LOL, it didn't fall because of what material it was built of! Razz

The material was the symbol, looked back.
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nimh
 
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Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 06:54 am
Yeah, I think I'm just having some trouble grasping your symbology. The Wall was deathly enough. Guardtowers, dogs, detection traps that would set off gunfire as soon as you approached it, infrared cameras, the lot ... people kept dying trying to cross the wall all through its existence.
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Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 06:55 am
I photo, showing the first wholes in the wall

http://infoeng.ee.ic.ac.uk/~scotti/More/Mauer/Images/mauer6.jpg
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satt fs
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 07:00 am
nimh wrote:
Yeah, I think I'm just having some trouble grasping your symbology. The Wall was deathly enough. Guardtowers, dogs, detection traps that would set off gunfire as soon as you approached it, infrared cameras, the lot ... people kept dying trying to cross the wall all through its existence.

I am totally talking from the view point; looking back.
(History is a memory, in a sense.)

Anyhow, a lot of important cities, Dresden, Meissen, Leipzig, .. , and of course Berlin, are in the eastern part of Germany. It would be a surprise and grief if they were separated owing to economic considerations from the western part.
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Duke of Lancaster
 
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Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 09:32 pm
satt_fs wrote:
nimh wrote:
Yeah, I think I'm just having some trouble grasping your symbology. The Wall was deathly enough. Guardtowers, dogs, detection traps that would set off gunfire as soon as you approached it, infrared cameras, the lot ... people kept dying trying to cross the wall all through its existence.

I am totally talking from the view point; looking back.
(History is a memory, in a sense.)

Anyhow, a lot of important cities, Dresden, Meissen, Leipzig, .. , and of course Berlin, are in the eastern part of Germany. It would be a surprise and grief if they were separated owing to economic considerations from the western part.


Yea, I don't want them separated again also. But, once again, I wouldn't even consider the question of separation because it's not gonna happen. But it still bothers me that some people want the wall back.....I don't know....they don't even know what they want.
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nimh
 
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Reply Tue 5 Jul, 2005 03:50 am
On a related count:

Quote:
Crosses Removed From Berlin Memorial

BERLIN - Workers on Tuesday began removing a field of crosses at Berlin's former Checkpoint Charlie after a privately run museum lost a court battle to keep the memorial to people killed at the East German border during the Cold War.

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050704/capt.xber10207041241.germany_wall_memorial_xber102.jpg

That doesnt seem right. Market over history, eh?

On the other hand, if enough Berliners had cared, they would have collected the money ... I find it amazing that so little in Berlin still reminds one of the Wall. Just the touristy Checkpoint Charlie, a kitschy monument out north between Wedding and Prenzlberg ... what else?

Its not for the first time though ...

There used to be an incredibly powerful monument to the Wall's victims near the Reichstag, I saw it in '93. Individual panels from the Wall, arranged next to each other, one for each year the Wall existed, each painted black up to a certain line, according to the number of people who died trying to cross it that year, the number painted above. It was a spontaneous monument, stood in what was then an empty plot inhabited by city nomads.

By '97, it had all been bulldozered away to make way for all the brand new city development, offices, government buildings, a more official-looking park for by the Reichstag.

<frowns>
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Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Tue 5 Jul, 2005 06:21 am
nimh wrote:
That doesnt seem right. Market over history, eh?

On the other hand, if enough Berliners had cared, they would have collected the money ... I find it amazing that so little in Berlin still reminds one of the Wall. Just the touristy Checkpoint Charlie, a kitschy monument out north between Wedding and Prenzlberg ... what else?

documentation center.
(Sightseeing tours are offered as 'walking tours :wink: )
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nimh
 
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Reply Tue 5 Jul, 2005 06:56 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
nimh wrote:
I find it amazing that so little in Berlin still reminds one of the Wall. Just the touristy Checkpoint Charlie, a kitschy monument out north between Wedding and Prenzlberg ... what else?

About the Berlin Wall, well, perhaps you didn't go to/see the right places, like e.g. the documentation center.

Uhm ... the Memorial linked on that site would be the one I meant when I mentioned the one "between Wedding and Prenzlberg". By Nordbahnhof. Sorry if that's still Mitte rather than Prenzlberg - I was going by memory.

Went there once, thought it was pretty cheesy, wasn't much impressed. Some big cross there, too - at least there was back then. Admittedly I didnt go to the documentation center, dont recognize that. And the picture does look like it's changed since I went that way, so perhaps that was in 97 still, before completion of the monument (tho I thought it was in 2000). Even that was already 8 years after the Wall's fall tho.

I liked the plaque further east down that street, where Bernauer Str turns into Eberswalder Str. Also like how they've marked where the Wall was with paving stones in a slightly different colour. But all that's pretty understated for something so crucial. <shrugs>

Do you remember that "spontaneous" monument I was talking about, Walter? It was close to the river, just opposite from the Schiffbauerdamm, a little north of the Reichstag. I guess the Bundestag is there now (but they could have moved it, no?).
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Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Tue 5 Jul, 2005 07:07 am
No, I don't think I saw it.

(Could it be, you menat "Parliament of trees which I remember vagely? )
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karanae84
 
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Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2005 10:53 am
Wow! I just spent a year living in Germany (the west-specifically Heidelberg) and made many trips east and saw nothing of this sort! Politically, it seems that Germany is going into crisis mode, what with the recent events surrounding Gerhard Schroeder, but I have not heard anything regarding an east-west crisis. Cultural differences notwithstanding, the two halves of the country seem to me to have been fairly seamlessly stitched back together.
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