Jesus and Atheists.

@mark noble,

Heyt, bro, it's the common usage, kinda like Aussie "mate", for someone you don't know. But I thank whatever nonexistent gods there may be, that you are not in fact my bro, and I am more than happy to disavow any connection with you that you may have read into the common English.

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@AugustineBrother,

Are you the light of the world AugustineBrother, or not?

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@maxdancona,

Your type always baits. Interesting to see it no matter how many times I witness it.

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@AugustineBrother,

I'd say you do a pretty thorough job of baiting too, bro.

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I would think This enmity between believers and non believers should be a source of curiosity. Max is right about Jesus and atheists, there was no bitterness, but what of this other? There has to be a reason and it isn't those door knockers that irritate some.

It's not a rhetorical question, I really do wonder.

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@AugustineBrother,

To be fair, I bait both sides (you could say I am a master baiter). It is because I feel that both sides are hypocritical. It is a bit worse for Christian to be trolling because Christians are supposed to be Christ-like.

The idea of the Jesus of the Bible trolling atheists on a public internet forum is laughable.

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@maxdancona,

To be fair, your writing and reasoning skills are nil

Being Christ-like is not something that is immediately judgeable, certainly not by you.

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@maxdancona,

Quote:

The idea of the Jesus of the Bible trolling atheists on a public internet forum is laughable.

Really? Why? That does not sound like something you would say. Do you liken Jesus to the Amish who eschew technology?

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@Leadfoot,

I don't imagine Jesus would be one of the religious people here trolling atheists because I don't see the Jesus of the Bible as an immature asshole. Maybe I am wrong about that.

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@maxdancona,

I see with this latest post of yours what your base problem is, you have no convictions.

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@AugustineBrother,

AugustineBrother wrote:

I see with this latest post of yours what your base problem is, you have no convictions.

What can I say.... I have a good lawyer.

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@maxdancona,

Quote:

I don't imagine Jesus would be one of the religious people here trolling atheists because I don't see the Jesus of the Bible as an immature asshole. Maybe I am wrong about that.

You are using the highly charged term 'trolling' which rigs your argument right off the bat, but I was ignoring that and assuming you meant what Jesus told believers to do.

You are not wrong about Jesus. His every response to every situation was spot on and full of wisdom. One of the reasons I believe is that I don't think mere men could have faked that. Sooner or later they would have slipped up and made him look like an asshole. As honest as I am and as hard as I try, I sometimes look like one.

I don't think he meant for us to be sure we are perfect before 'trolling'.

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@Leadfoot,

considering everything we have from him is at least third hand, maybe he just had good editors.

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@Leadfoot,

There are several times when Jesus appears to have acted erratically (in that if someone I knew acted this way, I would have thought them crazy).

For example, he went by a fruit tree that didn't have any fruit on it. The reason that it didn't have any fruit is that it wasn't in season. He cursed the tree and it died.

I get it that this is an allegory for something... but still, what the heck?

If you start with the assumption that Jesus always did the perfect thing, then you can explain away any time that His behavior was irrational or impulsive. But if you judge the behavior of Jesus objectively (or the same way you would judge your friends) there are several things Jesus did that would make you think he was a little nuts.

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@maxdancona,

Let me ask you something max.

You appear to have some familiarity with the Bible and the teachings of Jesus.

What do you, overall, think about them?

A net plus or net minus for humanity.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

I answered this on another thread recently.

I have a great deal of respect for the Jesus portrayed in the Bible. I particularly like the Sermon on the Mount. They impact my personal sense of morality although I don't consider them hard and fast rules. There are a few parts of the gospels I don't like even as a story.

There are many parts of the Bible I don't like at all including much of the epistles of Paul.

I am not at all happy with modern Christianity. I haven't found a modern Christian group that I feel even comes close to following the Jesus of the Bible... every one of them interprets away key parts of the gospels that either inconvenience them or contradicts their political views.

At one time in my life, I tried to follow the Jesus in the gospels. I don't any more. But, like Jesus I still have a deep antipathy toward what I see as religious hypocrisy.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

I answered this on another thread recently.

I have a great deal of respect for the Jesus portrayed in the Bible. I particularly like the Sermon on the Mount. They impact my personal sense of morality although I don't consider them hard and fast rules. There are a few parts of the gospels I don't like even as a story.

There are many parts of the Bible I don't like at all including much of the epistles of Paul.

I am not at all happy with modern Christianity. I haven't found a modern Christian group that I feel even comes close to following the Jesus of the Bible... every one of them interprets away key parts of the gospels that either inconvenience them or contradicts their political views.

At one time in my life, I tried to follow the Jesus in the gospels. I don't any more. But, like Jesus I still have a deep antipathy toward what I see as religious hypocrisy.

You didn't answer my question.

A net plus or a net minus?

I don't think you've searched very hard if you can't find a Christian group that you can stomach. There are loads of progressive Christian groups and the Pope ain't that far from them.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Hmmm... If you are going to make me choose between "net plus" and "net minus", I will say "net plus". I don't think it is a very meaningful question. Religion is very closely tied to culture and if it wasn't Jesus then it would have been someone else to push the love each other/ get along/ be nice to poor people values that no one truly believes.

I didn't say anything about a "Christian group I can stomach". There are certainly Christian groups I can stomach, and some of them I think are just swell. I said I couldn't find a "Christian group that even comes close to following the Jesus of the Bible". The question becomes "what's the point"?

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@maxdancona,

You don't think it was a very meaningful question because your answer was very reluctant.

How can it not be meaningful to someone who reliably and continuously criticizes the influence of Christianity (and noticeably not Islam) on our society?

Now let's turn to a more personal perspective. Are you, max, a net plus or a net minus to society?

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Whether I am a net plus or a net minus to society depends on whether you ask my mother... or my ex-wife. The question of my value to society is meaningless unless you provide scale. Without this scale, I can't even justify my own value (nor do I have need to).

The question of Jesus' value to society is even more broad. Jesus has provided a religious figure to worship.

The Jesus story has provided a cultural story that is common to most of us. The Jesus story was used to justify slavery, the Mexican war and the forced removal of indigenous peoples. The Jesus story informed and inspired the abolition movement and civil rights movement particularly with Martin Luther King. The Jesus Story informed both sides of the Civil war.

We don't even full agree whether some of these things were good or bad. How do we do the calculus in any meaningful way?

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Jesus and Atheists.

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