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many of my friends are, a word trap

 
 
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2016 06:38 pm
Some of my best friends are - that tends to found false.

Long have I heard that as lame and I get the whys, the false hoods behind the words, but where does that leave the rest of us, some with diverse pals?

I squirm saying some of my best friends are Latinas, the rare times that comes up. I don't get to say the truth in an appropriate conversation? Usually there is a proximate point, help or story.

I consider this sociology of friend claiming.
Maybe there have been papers on all this already. Distaste for mentioning people vary? Often we get on with people new to us.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 4 • Views: 757 • Replies: 19
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cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2016 06:46 pm
@ossobuco,
Why even say they are "Latina?" I may identify where my friend lives, but I don't see any need to identify their race.
I have said that I have Canadian friends in Malaysia and Mexico and never mention their race.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2016 06:50 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Also, why not, if that is who I went to Mexico with for many years. Not by some expensive boat with guides moving on shore.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2016 06:55 pm
@ossobuco,
You said,
Quote:
I squirm saying some of my best friends are Latinas, the rare times that comes up.


I don't squirm when I mention a person's homeland, because I don't mention their race. Why is mentioning race necessary?
I have friends in Germany, UK, Malaysia, Singapore, Russia, Cuba, Canada, Mexico, Africa, and all over the US.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2016 07:03 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I squirm because "that is code for dealing with jews while still shutting them out".

I take it that follows in other codes.

I don't like it.

You seem to have never heard of it.

I'm fine on heritage, and read a lot about it. On the latest book I'm reading, I'm now in Romania. I'm interested in people's backgrounds, histories, and do not mind mentioning how they like to be called.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2016 07:13 pm
@ossobuco,
Sorry, I meant that those words can have a false resonance, because of background understandings.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2016 07:16 pm
@ossobuco,
I guess I see it from a different perspective. All my bosses (3) have been Jews, and they have treated me very well with pay raises and promotions. I also know Bob Brodsky, a rocket scientist who now lives in Southern California. He also taught at USC. We met while on vacation some years ago in Mexico, and we have kept in touch by email. He has written three books which I have read.
https://astronautics.usc.edu/faculty-staff/brodsky.htm
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2016 07:21 pm
@cicerone imposter,
That's nice. I call people what they call themselves.

You don't seem to get that seeming to like people can be a cover and has been for many decades, particularly re jews.

That was the point of my post. Others may understand me.

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2016 07:28 pm
@ossobuco,
FYI, I have friends of many races and cultures. What's your problem?
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2016 07:28 pm
@ossobuco,
There are two different issues here.

The word "Latino" has a lot of meaning to people who are Latino. This is a word that many people (including people in my immediate family) use to describe themselves... and it has a lot of meaning about cultural identity and how people see themselves in the society.

My general rule is to use the words to describes someone's ethnicity that they use for themselves.

This is different than friend-naming, which I think was Osso's main point.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2016 07:37 pm
@maxdancona,
ok, you get me, agreeing.

Meantime, the maybe olden business that sounds nice but is a cover is probably still out there - "some of my best friends are jewish".
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2016 07:47 pm
I will add that I've been reading a series of books that engage me and bore me and engage me again and are too complicated and engage me again, showing me places I thought I knew and haven't perceived all that well.
I'll drop the name, Alan Furst.

I had thought I sort of understood europe..

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2016 08:02 pm
@ossobuco,
I think many of us think you understand Italy best.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2016 08:15 pm
I once had a partner in work, who, it turned out, did not like people of color. Almost every conversation we had about other people, he would ask if they were black or white. I got tired of arguing about it and took to telling him, each time he asked, "I don't know. I didn't notice." That carried over. I never tell a person's color or ethnicity in a conversation, unless it is absolutely essential.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2016 08:37 pm
@edgarblythe,
I have a very diverse group of friends. We joke about ethnicity quite a bit. Being a White man, I am sometimes the butt of these jokes. But we have no problem joking about racial stereotypes.

With friends, there is no point in worrying about it. Avoiding talking about race or ethnicity is often awkward and unnatural in a group of friends.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2016 08:44 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Thanks for that, but much as I leapt to read and have read, I'm not italian. Of the people here that get it, one was my pal, Paola, may she rest in peace; they lived in Rome and New York, where Diane and she and met. She was dying then and knew it and told me, but still had some pep. Her husband's family, also there in NY then, was from Turin and he was well established in the news business, Turin being one of the most interesting places in Italy. I didn't get there, and should have, irritated at self..

I had a lover, years ago of course, who was from a sicilian mafia family in the u.s, who denied there was such a thing as the mafia. He was right, re logistics. Many mafias.

Re jews, much bad happened there, and I've read at length, including re the start of ghettos..
But, I've also read some small amount of good stuff, a place starting with P where people held on in caves (Pitigliano? that is a guess) helped by the population or some of it; some carabinieri warning before the raids in Rome...

An a2ker who knows the place, was Olivier - who recently left a2k.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2016 08:51 pm
@edgarblythe,
I do, but that is from my background - I'm apt to be more interested of you are from Eritrea than if you are from Arizona.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2016 09:33 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I have a very diverse group of friends. We joke about ethnicity quite a bit. Being a White man, I am sometimes the butt of these jokes. But we have no problem joking about racial stereotypes.

With friends, there is no point in worrying about it. Avoiding talking about race or ethnicity is often awkward and unnatural in a group of friends.


I don't have those kinds of friends. My brothers and I could joke like
that without meaning any harm. I am thinking more about the people one is not all that close to.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2016 10:01 pm
@edgarblythe,
Speaking of ethnicity jokes, one of the funniest Polish joke told to me by a Polish guy. I usually don't remember jokes, but I remember this one, and it's been over five decades ago when I worked for Florsheim Shoes.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2016 10:31 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Just by way of mention, I heard one about two Ethnicans on a fishing trip. I assume one was Polish and the other Chinese.
0 Replies
 
 

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