Homosexual Love

Can you explain why homosexuality would be 'immoral'? What wrong are they doing? What harm are they causing by loving someone of the same sex?

There's more homosexuals in your small town than you think. Lots play straight for an easy life, especially in conservative places.

As for relationships... each is as different to the other as straight relationships. But in places where it's now accepted they follow the hetero norms more than ever. Meet someone, fall in love, move in together, go to work 9 to 5. In the past it was simply impossible live openly in a long term gay relationship without seriously bad consequences. So those who could, went to cities with gay communities to try and meet other gay people. But it had to be secretive, and brief encounters from a very small pool of men, and this was a major factor in making HIV a problem in the gay community. Today, more gay people can just live 'normal' open lives together. Unfortunately, most in the world cannot.

Well, I would say that homosexuality is wrong. But if a person thinks that it is right then I would say that nothing is wrong. For example gay sex to a homosexual person is alright. But for me, as a person who doesn't believe in it, I do think that every aspect is wrong. I think that it is wrong, because the Bible says so. I think that God created us with a certain and perfect "settings" and I do not believe that homosexuality is apart of that creation.

Thank you for letting me hear that. I'm not saying that I want to be homosexual but I am curious about how they go about life and it was just as I assumed. I do have one more question in response to this, is it not a sign that homosexuality is wrong if there are diseases that kill and come from this practice. I know that there are also diseases that can come from heterosexual sex but that is when a person has sex with too many partners, which I also think is wrong. When sex is done with the same person throughout life there are no problems and while there are many different ways, problems arise from each one of them.

Sexually transmitted infections are exactly the same with straight sex and gay sex. There are NO STIs caused by the sex being same sex. I guess you're aware that religious opposition to condoms in African countries is fueling their HIV crisis today. What's immoral there? Heterosexuality? The church?

Gay people have no more sexual desire than straight people. Despite stereotypes, the promiscuity is not so different. Thing is, women admitting to lots of sex are sluts - but men are 'real men'. I agree monogamy is best long term. Happiness comes from stability, security, and being surrounded by loved ones, not lots of sexual gratification, money, or whatever. The problem for many homosexuals is that they are rejected, prevented from finding someone, or forced to live a lie because of other people's opinions.

I am yet to hear any logic as to why it's is wrong. Where I live it's generally accepted and the only active opponents are now religious groups. I'm sorry but 'because the bible says so' doesn't give the logic or reason to convince me two men or women loving each other is wrong.

Great responses kency123.

do you believe in red hair?

do you believe in cowlicks?

That changes a lot over time and place. In the time of Socrates it was accepted as normal. Up until recently in America, to be gay was to be an outcast. Today it is downright fashionable.

I would say that I do but I have no idea what relevancy that has in the argument. I would say that I have to believe in red hair and in cowlick, why wouldn't I? What's your point?

Ok so I am going to respond with according to what was said in each paragraph so there is less confusion in our conversation.

1st Paragraph: After doing some research I found that there actually are many diseases that come from having homosexual relations. In fact, gay men who have gay sex are automatically are 17 times more likely to get an STD than men who do not have gay sex and straight men, so sorry to say but you are wrong on that one. As for the HIV crisis, I would say that as much as I love being apart of one and being able to learn about God every week, I know that there are problems with it and what it believes. So I would say that the church is in the wrong in that situation if condoms are going to stop the spread of HIV I would say that there needs to be protection for those who are uninfected.

2nd Paragraph: Since Bible is not a go0d enough reason to be able to give logic for or against it, then what does? What logic that is so high and mighty above me is so much greater and give the answer as to why it is right?

If this all of a sudden changed over time, can you explain why it did so? Can you explain what caused it? Was it because out priorities were in the right place and focused on the right things?

Hell, I don't know. Wait awhile and it'll change again.

What is our hypothesis on why it changed?

Sorry but you're simply not understanding. Forget gay sex and the church for a minute. African men are more likely to have HIV. Does this come from their biological status of being African? Do their bodies create, spread, and fall more subsceptible to it because their bodies are African? Is being African immoral? No! It is caused by external social and political factors.

And there is only logic to the bible if you believe it. They are a book of ancient stories which you can believe as 'sacred' if you want - must people in the world, including me, do not.

And can it not be assumed that the external factor is sex? Is that not a logical answer to the problem? That too much or the same sex may be the answer?

Yes an external factor is sex. I'm not clear what you think the answer is, stop people having sex? Or Africans? Or just gays? Semen is the big factor in sexually transmitted HIV, making lesbian sex much safer for women in this respect.

There are a number of external reasons for a higher proportion of gay men catching STIs. Both people able to give and take semen is one reason. A far, far smaller group having sex with each other than straight people is another mathematical reason. Socially, I already said many are forced underground for brief secret encounters because others disapprove.

Gay people are also not held to 'hetero' norms of marriage and kids. How many marriages stay together for the kids? There's an increase in older divorces because the kids leave home and Mum and Dad finally admit after 20 years that they can't stand each other. For unsuccessful gay couples they have no kids, no marriage, no reason to stay if it goes wrong. There is less expectation of life long commitment. However, where open gay couples are socially accepted, officially recognized and marriage allowed, monogamous gay relationships are far more prevalent and successful.

These are external social issues, and not inherent to the hearts, minds, or bodies of homosexuals.

Now we are off topic of what the original conversation and the original question was about. Gay rights as I said before has had more of a greater push in recent history than there ever has been before. Now, you obviously agree with have homosexual marriages, relationships, sex etc... but why I want to know why you think that it is right and morally correct.

Should we not ask why somethings wrong not why it's right? After all the basic purpose of the law is to tell us what we cannot do. In a free country like the US you assume you're free to you what you want unless the law says you can't - not vice versa. I am confused by the idea that loving someone of the same gender causes any harm. The main reasons given are religious text, and these reasons are immediately meaningless if you are a member of a different religion or of none. Of my gay friends the only difference to straight couples is their genders (and that their rights to have their long term monogamous relationships are restricted).

When a law is created, the law needs to have proof that will help society and reasons to legalize it, there needs to a moral, logical reason to create it. Considering that, what is morally correct and logical about legalizing homosexuality? What are the bad things about that are morally wrong? So far I haven't gotten this answer, just because you have gay friends and because society wants it doesn't mean it should just happen there needs to be reasons behind it. What are your reasons? So far, you've been avoiding it so I'm beginning to think you don't have any.