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Why would a good and fair God allow suffering?

 
 
Reply Mon 2 May, 2016 08:29 pm
Why would a God who everyone claims as good allow evil in the world?
 
neologist
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2016 01:06 am
@kristihendricks,
Posted in several other places through the years:

Is the God who created us the same as the god who currently rules the world? Consider the account in Matthew 4: 8-9 where Satan was able to offer all the kingdoms of the world to Jesus. He could not have done so, if he did not control them.

Thankfully, his control has an expiration date.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2016 04:37 am
Not only are you attempting to flog that old horsie poop again, you've used almost exactly the same text--except for trying to dodge the obvious problem of this being a dead horse, in for another beating.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2016 10:23 am
@Setanta,
I know and I apologize to all who have seen it before. But I'm just trying to stick to the narrative for the sake of newbies.

Have a good day.
0 Replies
 
kristihendricks
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2016 10:36 am
@neologist,
So you're saying that God has the same amount of control as Satan?
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2016 05:06 pm
@kristihendricks,
Where did I give that impression? Sorry if I did.
But, since Genesis chapter 3, Satan has been allowed time to prove that his way is best for mankind.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2016 05:22 pm
@kristihendricks,
Forget that there's a god. Everything will fall into it's proper place. Humans are animals with all the man made gods, rules, laws, and what we consider good and evil. They are all subjective. Humans had to creat rules of behavior in order to have some stability in society.
kristihendricks
 
  0  
Reply Sun 8 May, 2016 05:18 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Okay, but where do we get our basis for good and evil? Doesn't that have to come from somewhere?
NealNealNeal
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 11 Aug, 2020 02:51 pm
@kristihendricks,
It must come from God.
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Aug, 2020 04:36 pm
@kristihendricks,
kristihendricks wrote:

Okay, but where do we get our basis for good and evil? Doesn't that have to come from somewhere?


Whose basis for good and evil, or as I see it, morality and ethics?

Which part of the world?

Which individuals?

Why does it have to come from this one somewhere or something?

I don’t think it says a lot about a person if they have to be told not to take something from another, not to force themselves on someone else, not to harm someone.

You really think we don’t know not to do these things, and to be kind to others?

That old saw of “what’s to keep you from murdering and raping as much as you want if you don’t have God?”

The equally old answer. “ I see no evidence for a god, and I rape and murder exactly as much as I want to, which is never. “

Why are you so afraid to trust your own morals which are just as fine as anything some book tells you?
0 Replies
 
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Aug, 2020 07:20 am
@kristihendricks,
Isaiah 45:7 - God (Judaeo-Christian deitic construct) PROCLAIMS - I AM the Creator (Harbinger) Of ALL GOOD & ALL EVIL - I AM the creator, preserver & destroyer 'ALL IN ALL'
Corinthians, SaulPaul & Acts - ALL IS BY HIM (GOD) THROUGH HIM & FOR HIM.

GOD DOES NOT DECLARE HIMSELF (biblically) as Being GOOD.
Estranged people do.

Have a brilliant EVERYTHING
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Aug, 2020 09:13 am
@mark noble,
Why should someone care what that particular book says?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Aug, 2020 11:09 am
@chai2,
A book full of errors, omissions, and contradictions. "Thou shalt not kill." "Kill all non-believers in me!" Luke 19:27 ESV / 20 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful

But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me.’”

Deuteronomy 13:6-10 ESV / 20 helpful votes

“If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or your daughter or the wife you embrace or your friend who is as your own soul entices you secretly, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which neither you nor your fathers have known, some of the gods of the peoples who are around you, whether near you or far off from you, from the one end of the earth to the other, you shall not yield to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him, nor shall you conceal him. But you shall kill him. Your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.
0 Replies
 
Teufel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Aug, 2020 02:34 pm
@kristihendricks,
Maybe if people faced facts, such as the highly dubious nature of the bible (Which version of the bible at which time? Or how about all the information left out?) and accept that all versions of the bible are a work of complete fiction ... Maybe there would be a better world facing us today.

Surely the interesting question is, what is the despicable weakness in the vast majority of our species that they must 'believe' ... That they must have some form of belief in something be it a God or a frigging sports team.

There is a deep seated need in the masses to be needed, to be validated and to be given value .... It is indeed these people who have created over time a God to love them and a set of rules (morals) because they are too afraid to control their own existence.

My own personal belief is that we have forgotten we are a 'hive' species and it further seems the masses have forgotten that they are the worker ants.

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Aug, 2020 10:52 am
@Teufel,
Many see the fictional nature of the bible, but many others see it as the message from their god. It doesn't matter that it's replete with errors, omissions and contradictions. They are able to skip over those, because they have already been brain-washed. What I don't understand is how anyone who trusts science and evolution can continue to believe in this 2,000 year old book with so many contradictions. The most important one for me are, "Thou shalt not kill," contradicted by, "Kill all infidels." If god says, "Thou shalt not kill," and he himself is the cause of so many deaths, that's what we humans call "hypocrisy." "Don't do as I do; do as I say." From Wiki: Over half the occurrences of the verb and noun for the root ḥ-r-m are concerned with the destruction of nations in war, but other terms associated with what Old Testament scholar Eric Siebert describes as "divine violence" may or may not include war. Siebert says divine violence is "violence God is said to have perpetrated, caused, or sanctioned." Specifically, this includes (1) violence God commits without using human agents (e.g., sending down fire on Sodom and Gomorrah); (2) violence God commissions, typically unbeknownst to those being commissioned (e.g., using Babylon to punish Judah for their sins); and (3) violence God commands directly (e.g., ordering Israelites to wipe out Canaanites)."[16] For example, concerning those who worship idols, Deuteronomy 7:16 uses akal ("consume") when saying "You must destroy (consume) all the peoples the Lord your God gives over to you…". Deuteronomy 7:24, on the other hand, uses abad when saying "you shall make their name perish from under heaven…" while Deuteronomy 20:10-18 says "…you shall not leave alive anything that breathes. But you shall utterly destroy (ha-harem taharimem) them, the Hittite and the Amorite, the Canaanite and the Perizzite, the Hivite and the Jebusite, as the Lord your God has commanded you…". "Amos 1:3–2:3 uses akal to indict Israel’s neighbors for various acts of cruelty during war (e.g., the Ammonites “ripped open pregnant women in Gilead in order to enlarge their territory”; 1:13) and uses those war crimes of surrounding peoples to draw a parallel with Israel's mistreatment of the poor, thus elevating economic injustice to the level of war crimes." (2:6–8).[2]:44

Other terms are: ṣamat (put an end to, exterminate...annihilate); shamad (destroy, exterminate); nakah (to strike fatally, kill, in manslaughter, murder...as retaliation ...in warfare, conquest...combat...attack, rout); aqar (pluck up, often in the violent sense); qatsah (to cut off, in a destructive sense); shabat (with zeker can refer to one's "memory" being "blotted out" but in another idiom it means to "be blotted out...from...[the] earth" to "be exterminated, be destroyed, perish"); and kalah (kalah in Qal can mean "be finished, be destroyed).[4]:133,431–432,684,179,255,416,418
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Aug, 2020 11:08 am
@cicerone imposter,
You may be unaware of this, Cic - But Tuefel doesn't EVER return post post.
He made this clear on another thread.
He states his view - And ...............Gone....... Forever.......

Maybe he takes a post post peek... who knows?

Mark
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Aug, 2020 11:19 am
@mark noble,
Doesn't really matter, because this thread still has followers. Just expressing my personal opinion about the subject. Whether people wish to believe what I say or not is not my concern. It's an open public forum. I don't follow this forum that closely myself.
NealNealNeal
 
  0  
Reply Tue 18 Aug, 2020 08:56 am
@cicerone imposter,
May I remind you of the first commandment, which is embellished by the second commandment.
In addition, God commands us to not murder. He does not say "do not kill".
0 Replies
 
KingReef
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Aug, 2020 07:49 am
@kristihendricks,
God has a very different view on what good and fair is. Man looks out for himself, places himself as most important. God puts what he wants as most important. God does not want everybody. We suffer because our predecessors didn't listen to him.
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Aug, 2020 09:22 am
@KingReef,
So in other words, God is just like man, putting what he wants has most important. Don't see how how the 2 are Any different, let alone Very different.

You know who else makes people suffer because what others before them did? Narcissistic pricks.
 

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