7
   

Does the Bible's creation account rule out the possibility that the universe began with the big bang

 
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Thu 25 Feb, 2016 04:29 am
What a complete wiener. Read the OP--the author of this thread is obviously a literalist, they ain't no metaphor about it. The scripture as metaphor bullsh*t is the most common and most feeble dodge the god botherers have.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Thu 25 Feb, 2016 07:19 am
@Setanta,
You mean the OP must be taken as gospel?

Guess I should write more of them..
Thomas
 
  0  
Thu 25 Feb, 2016 12:29 pm
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:
You mean the OP must be taken as gospel?

Not as gospel, only as the topic of the thread and the question to be answered.

That being said, if genesis is a metaphor with no specific meaning in particular, then the answer to the original question is "no". As Bob Dylan might have put it, "when you got nothing, you got nothing to contradict". Personally, I never understood why liberal theologians consider this a defense worth putting up, given that the "you got nothing" part of it is pretty damning in itself. But if it floats your boat, go for it.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Thu 25 Feb, 2016 01:56 pm
@Thomas,
Quote:
That being said, if genesis is a metaphor with no specific meaning
So if I won't allow you to pretend metaphor does not exist you then try to define it as meaningless? No sale.

Far from being meaningless, metaphor allows us to say more with fewer words and with more depth than would otherwise be possible.
Thomas
 
  1  
Thu 25 Feb, 2016 10:12 pm
@Leadfoot,
Then please enlighten me: If "seven days" is a metaphor for "a time interval of no specific length", how is that not meaningless? What does it mean? How does it say more with fewer words?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 25 Feb, 2016 11:49 pm
@Leadfoot,
Metaphor doesn't allow us to say it with lesser words. No means no. Adding words doesn't clarify it.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Fri 26 Feb, 2016 09:28 am
@Thomas,
Quote:
Then please enlighten me: If "seven days" is a metaphor for "a time interval of no specific length", how is that not meaningless? What does it mean? How does it say more with fewer words?


The metaphor in the bible paints a picture of God creating a universe with some specified purpose in mind, 'The Beginning' marking the start of implementing that plan. He does so in a methodical way, pausing at each step to evaluate it and verify that as he fills each environmental niche that it satisfies the requirements for what he has in mind. Not only does he take into account immediate needs but the needs that he sees projected far into the future. It is only in that far future that he eventually places Man onto the planet, the ultimate goal, but only of the implementation phase of his plan.

As his experiment with man continues, he had anticipated man's advances in terms of population, science and technology and energy needs. The early 'days' lasting hundreds of millions of years were not just the requirements for life forms to multiply, but the necessary atmospheric conditions to reach equilibrium and for coal and oil resources to develop that would eventually be needed.

Some might ask, why not miraculously create all those conditions, resources, etc. in literal days rather than ' Billenia'? God anticipated the 'spiritual environment' man would need as well as the physical environment. That included the one we find ourselves in today. One in which we have to ask these questions about where we and the universe came from without any smoking gun explanation hanging in front of us.
maxdancona
 
  3  
Fri 26 Feb, 2016 11:32 am
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
The metaphor in the bible paints a picture of God creating a universe with some specified purpose in mind


I could say that in much few words (in fact you just did). The big problem with using such a specific metaphor is that you have to make sure the details are at least correct. If you make claims, such as that land plants were created before sea animals, that can be shown to be incorrect then your metaphor is blown.

If you believe that some deity created the Universe with a purpose in mind you should just say so. Once you start inventing stories with details that can be checked with actual facts you are going to get yourself into trouble.
rosborne979
 
  1  
Fri 26 Feb, 2016 11:39 am
@Leadfoot,
Honestly it all sounds like desperate rationalizing to me. I doubt I would have to work that hard even to justify Scientology and alien Thetans.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Fri 26 Feb, 2016 11:43 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
If you believe that some deity created the Universe with a purpose in mind you should just say so
Umm...

Like I said, metaphor expresses it with much more depth and nuance.

But you're not a fan of metaphor, I get that. Here's farmerman's version - godidit.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 26 Feb, 2016 11:46 am
@maxdancona,
This only proves that people of religion must rationalize everything that's not straight forward. So, they say it's metaphoric, and come up with all kinds of ideas that they can dream up. They have more information about the bible than the bible itself.
God really messed up! He should have known there would be so many conflicts of ideas in his book.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Fri 26 Feb, 2016 11:55 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
God really messed up! He should have known there would be so many conflicts of ideas in his book.
Not at all. The book recognizes that all the answers are not in it's pages but does direct you to where to find it.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 26 Feb, 2016 11:56 am
@Leadfoot,
So, you hear the voice of god in your head?
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Fri 26 Feb, 2016 12:02 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Well let me challenge you with that question through a metaphor...do you listen the "voice" of REASON in your head ? Remember that "God" has not to mean an immortal beard old sage dictating upon us on whims...how about Reason and Mathematics being the abstract version of what people mundanely call "God"...

...see...all of the sudden ridiculing that idea become all that more hard...
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Fri 26 Feb, 2016 12:03 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Without quibbling over the terms 'hear', 'voice' and 'head' -
Sure, most all the time.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 26 Feb, 2016 12:04 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
We're talking about the 'voice of god.' Not our own thinking.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Fri 26 Feb, 2016 12:11 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I'm sure you think your ability to think and reason comes from somewhere other than God. The jury is still out on that..
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Fri 26 Feb, 2016 12:14 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

We're talking about the 'voice of god.' Not our own thinking.


...tricky tricky that talk about "you"...Reason is in all of Nature and "you" didn't come out of thin air...order in your own body and mind came from Nature...that fellow over there calls Nature God but that for me is a minor detail...I have better things to do then debating semantics...
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 26 Feb, 2016 12:17 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
As an atheist, god doesn't exist. Nobody can prove any god exists. Logic 101.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Fri 26 Feb, 2016 12:20 pm
@cicerone imposter,
No one can prove a negative. Same class.

(But I think you must have snuck in to class with a comic book, not the assigned text. God not mentioned in Logic 101)
0 Replies
 
 

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