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Tue 27 Jul, 2004 01:19 am
Some talk and speculation the other day that amonium may be present on the sruface of mars and I heard that this might indicate that there was once life there.... "due to the unstable nature of Amonium" -- for whatever that means... I would like to know more about how amonium could indicate life. Secondly, what form was it in if and when it was found and could it possibly have come from the solid propellant on the delivery vehicle that was composed primarily of ammonium perchlorate and aluminum which was used to push the craft free from Earth's gravitational tug?
i'm interested in learning about all this stuff, and I don't really know where to begin.
Re: Does the presence of NH4+ on mars indicate life?
muddierwaters wrote:Some talk and speculation the other day that amonium may be present on the sruface of mars and I heard that this might indicate that there was once life there.... "due to the unstable nature of Amonium" -- for whatever that means... I would like to know more about how amonium could indicate life. Secondly, what form was it in if and when it was found and could it possibly have come from the solid propellant on the delivery vehicle that was composed primarily of ammonium perchlorate and aluminum which was used to push the craft free from Earth's gravitational tug?
i'm interested in learning about all this stuff, and I don't really know where to begin.
Good question. Me either. I'll try some google and we'll see if PatioDog shows up to help us out
Welcome to the system.
I'm flatters, rosborne, but I have no idea what it suggests. On earth pretty much all of the non-atmospheric nitrogen -- nitrates/nitrites and ammonia -- were put that way by living systems, but I don't know if that speaks to conditions everywhere or just on earth.
Quick edit: there must have been some nonliving source for reduced (and probably oxidized) nitrogen before living systems, since all living systems contain them...
I think the assumption is that the ammonia, if it were found, would be a waste product from some form of biological system. ie life form.
Ammonia is much more than a waste product (though it is that, too); to have life as we know it, you've got to have amines (substituted ammonia). Also, some organisms oxidize ammonia as an energy source.
patiodog wrote:Ammonia is much more than a waste product (though it is that, too); to have life as we know it, you've got to have amines (substituted ammonia). Also, some organisms oxidize ammonia as an energy source.
See. I knew you were the guy we needed in this discussion
What part do amines play in the biological process? I'm not very familiar with it.
Thx.
It's the basic end of amino acids, and frequently carryies positive charges in the active sites of enzymes -- on the side chain of glutamine, for instance. Important stuff. I don't know how much is incorporated from free ammonia/ammonium, though. Dunno anything about amino acid synthesis.
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