15
   

Should we Still Celebrate Columbus Day?

 
 
Ragman
 
  2  
Reply Tue 13 Oct, 2015 02:29 pm
@Setanta,
Specious twaddle? No, that's my old weird uncle. He's the main legal counsel of that infamous law firm of Specious, Twaddle and Moot.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Oct, 2015 02:38 pm
@Setanta,
Are there religious services for American Thanksgiving?
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Oct, 2015 03:26 pm
@ehBeth,
None that i know of, however, this is the proclamation which Lincoln issued in calling for the national holiday:

By the President of the United States of America.

A Proclamation.

The year that is drawing towards its close, has been filled with the blessings of fruitful fields and healthful skies. To these bounties, which are so constantly enjoyed that we are prone to forget the source from which they come, others have been added, which are of so extraordinary a nature, that they cannot fail to penetrate and soften even the heart which is habitually insensible to the ever watchful providence of Almighty God. In the midst of a civil war of unequaled magnitude and severity, which has sometimes seemed to foreign States to invite and to provoke their aggression, peace has been preserved with all nations, order has been maintained, the laws have been respected and obeyed, and harmony has prevailed everywhere except in the theatre of military conflict; while that theatre has been greatly contracted by the advancing armies and navies of the Union. Needful diversions of wealth and of strength from the fields of peaceful industry to the national defence, have not arrested the plough, the shuttle or the ship; the axe has enlarged the borders of our settlements, and the mines, as well of iron and coal as of the precious metals, have yielded even more abundantly than heretofore. Population has steadily increased, notwithstanding the waste that has been made in the camp, the siege and the battle-field; and the country, rejoicing in the consiousness of augmented strength and vigor, is permitted to expect continuance of years with large increase of freedom. No human counsel hath devised nor hath any mortal hand worked out these great things. They are the gracious gifts of the Most High God, who, while dealing with us in anger for our sins, hath nevertheless remembered mercy. It has seemed to me fit and proper that they should be solemnly, reverently and gratefully acknowledged as with one heart and one voice by the whole American People. I do therefore invite my fellow citizens in every part of the United States, and also those who are at sea and those who are sojourning in foreign lands, to set apart and observe the last Thursday of November next, as a day of Thanksgiving and Praise to our beneficent Father who dwelleth in the Heavens. And I recommend to them that while offering up the ascriptions justly due to Him for such singular deliverances and blessings, they do also, with humble penitence for our national perverseness and disobedience, commend to His tender care all those who have become widows, orphans, mourners or sufferers in the lamentable civil strife in which we are unavoidably engaged, and fervently implore the interposition of the Almighty Hand to heal the wounds of the nation and to restore it as soon as may be consistent with the Divine purposes to the full enjoyment of peace, harmony, tranquillity and Union.

In testimony whereof, I have hereunto set my hand and caused the Seal of the United States to be affixed.

Done at the City of Washington, this Third day of October, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty-three, and of the Independence of the Unites States the Eighty-eighth.

By the President: Abraham Lincoln


Americans are, however, even when religiously inclined, relentlessly secular. I suspect it quickly became an unofficial tribute to gluttony.
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 13 Oct, 2015 03:27 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
Youve made it sound as if warring tribes and large scale conquests were unknown to the"Civilized" Old World


Or the new world along with slavery and religion tortures and murders for that matter.

As far as diseases how in the hell can you blame someone for carrying diseases from one area of the world to another a few hundreds years before germ theory came into being?

An diseases with populations with no immunity to was commonly spread by travels by traders and explorers in the history of mankind and it was a flip of the coin if the old world or the new world would be worst off in that regard.

An Hawkeye was correct it was just a matter of time before the old world and the new would have come into large scale contact in any case.

0 Replies
 
wmwcjr
 
  3  
Reply Tue 13 Oct, 2015 09:36 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
I dont feel bad for the indians at all, they had chances to integrate with their betters. They were aware that they were expected to drop their primitive ways, they were to learn the ways of civilized men, but they largely refused. It was their poor choices that condemned them, or maybe they were just too dumb to get on with what they needed to do.


I'm sorry, but I have to speak out. This is sick. Morally, spiritually, and psychologically sick. Very sick. I'd get into trouble with my own professed principles if I said any more; so, I'll not make any more comments.
snood
 
  6  
Reply Tue 13 Oct, 2015 09:49 pm
@wmwcjr,
wmwcjr wrote:

hawkeye10 wrote:
I dont feel bad for the indians at all, they had chances to integrate with their betters. They were aware that they were expected to drop their primitive ways, they were to learn the ways of civilized men, but they largely refused. It was their poor choices that condemned them, or maybe they were just too dumb to get on with what they needed to do.


I'm sorry, but I have to speak out. This is sick. Morally, spiritually, and psychologically sick. Very sick. I'd get into trouble with my own professed principles if I said any more; so, I'll not make any more comments.


I guess if we try to look on the good side of having creatures like hawkeye's contributions on this forum, there is one thing. Him and his cretinous pals let the rest of us know that there are actually human beings that think like this. Those indigenous people just didn't appreciate all that the white man did for them. It was good for Native Americans to have their ways of life crushed and their land taken, just like to them it was probably good for blacks that they got brought here as slaves.

We people who have souls and consciences can learn from reading the thoughts of people like Hawkeye. It gives us an up close, real time look at the cavernous emptiness that resides in an evil heart.
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 13 Oct, 2015 11:30 pm
@snood,
Quote:
It was good for Native Americans to have their ways of life crushed and their land taken, just like to them it was probably good for blacks that they got brought here as slaves.


Let see there was fairly constant wars between tribes over good lands and they raided each other for women and after the evil Europeans brought over horses they also raided each other for horses as well as women.

An they did enslave each others before 1492.

Quote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_among_the_indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas

Slavery among the indigenous peoples of the Americas took many forms throughout North and South America. Slavery was a common institution among various Pre-Columbian indigenous peoples of the Americas;


Quote:


http://www.troynovant.com/Franson/Keeley/War-Before-Civilization.html

Pre-Columbian Indian village slaughter
Here's one of Keeley's striking examples from pre-Columbian North America:

In some regions of the American Southwest, the violent destruction of prehistoric settlements is well documented and during some periods was even common. ...

For example, the large pueblo at Sand Canyon in Colorado, although protected by a defensive wall, was almost entirely burned; artifacts in the rooms had been deliberately smashed; and bodies of some victims were left lying on the floors. After this catastrophe in the late thirteenth century, the pueblo was never reoccupied.

Another, from the upper Midwest:

Contrary to Brian Ferguson's claim that such [inter-tribal] slaughters were a consequence of contact with modern European or other civilizations, archaeology yields evidence of prehistoric massacres more severe than any recounted in ethnography. For example, at Crow Creek in South Dakota, archaeologists found a mass grave containing the remains of more than 500 men, women, and children who had been slaughtered, scalped, and mutilated during an attack on their village a century and a half before Columbus's arrival (ca. A.D. 1325).

The attack seems to have occurred just when the village's fortifications were being rebuilt. All the houses were burned, and most of the inhabitants were murdered. This death toll represented more than 60 percent of the village's population, estimated from the number of houses to have been about 800. The survivors appear to have been primarily young women, as their skeletons are underrepresented among the bones; if so, they were probably taken away as captives. Certainly, the site was deserted for some time after the attack because the bodies evidently remained exposed to scavenging animals for a few weeks before burial. In other words, this whole village was annihilated in a single attack and never reoccupied.
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 13 Oct, 2015 11:59 pm
@snood,
Now that I address your fantasy of peaceful pre Columbian tribes living in a garden of Eden before the evil white man show up, let deal with your following comment.

Quote:
just like to them it was probably good for blacks that they got brought here as slaves.


At the moment a large percent of Africa is a hell hole with bad water, all kinds of out of control diseases such as Malaria and nations where HIV had reach over 20 percents of the adult population.

So yes at least for the US descents of Africa slaves they are far far far better off as citizens of the US then most of those who ancestors was not taken as slaves.
hawkeye10
 
  -4  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 12:26 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
So yes at least for the US descents of Africa slaves they are far far far better off as citizens of the US then most of those who ancestors was not taken as slaves


Yep. Blacks cant understand why guilt trips about stuff they and more often their dead ancestors went through don't work on me, and this is the reason.

Wah. Have a good cry and then produce. If you choose to not produce then **** you, you can starve for all I care.
snood
 
  4  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 06:44 am
Hey, I've got an idea for salvaging Columbus Day! Let's keep it on the calendar and just change the way we celebrate it. We could all honor him on that day by inviting ourselves and several of our friends into someone else's home, brandishing weapons and declaring that the home is now ours!
BillRM
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 07:00 am
@snood,
Quote:
could all honor him on that day by inviting ourselves and several of our friends into someone else's home, brandishing weapons and declaring that the home is now ours!


We also could have a native american day where we get to raid other people and seized their properties and their women and then to made sure our crops would be good we might even have a nice religion ceremony of cutting their still beating heart out. Perhaps keeping some of them as slaves as well.

Strange is it not that you are not willing to go near the points I had made and that is good old Columbus and the evil Europeans that follow was playing by the same rules as the natives as far as seizing and taking over lands from other tribes.

Europeans was just better at doing so for the most part.
hawkeye10
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 07:05 am
@snood,
snood wrote:

Hey, I've got an idea for salvaging Columbus Day! Let's keep it on the calendar and just change the way we celebrate it. We could all honor him on that day by inviting ourselves and several of our friends into someone else's home, brandishing weapons and declaring that the home is now ours!


The solution is easy, since we now celebrate the victims rather than the heros who accomplish things we keep the holiday on the calendar and rename it Indigenous peoples of North America day, or what ever we are calling the indians these days. We can all have a good cry that the indians got overrun and replaced by a better version of humanoid.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 07:54 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
i don't find Thanksgiving offensive--maybe just move it to a Monday.


Would we still get Black Tuesday off?
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 12:41 pm
@Setanta,
Geologically speaking, we should remember Columbu Day for the mere fact that "the Columbian Exchange" which really began with him and his fellow travelers,reknit the torn fabric of Pangea.

Things like earthworms in The northeast, chocolate in Switzerland, tomatoes in italy, chickens, domestic cattle and horses in the Americas , all owe their placement to the rapid exchange of organisms and genes via the human exploitation of that portion of the planet
Leadfoot
 
  3  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 12:57 pm
I never understood celebrating anyone or any event on a designated day of the year. If they or it is worth remembering, we don't need an officially designated day to do it on.

That's not to say that history isn't worth studying.
farmerman
 
  4  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 02:08 pm
@Leadfoot,
humans are funny that way.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  3  
Reply Sun 18 Oct, 2015 09:50 am
@wmwcjr,
Dear friend, that stuff is the dismal tip of a disgusting iceberg that is the tortured (torturing?) objectification of everybody else by Hawkeye.

He really doesn't care about anyone else. Thats just who he is.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  4  
Reply Sun 18 Oct, 2015 10:01 am
@BillRM,
Dear TonyRM: You get your history from TV sitcoms/Westerns. For a wonderful couple of books about how truly history/fact deprived your "education" really is:

"Guns, Germs and Steel" by Jared Diamond or "1471: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus" by Charles Mann.

bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Reply Sun 18 Oct, 2015 10:07 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
blahblahmildlyoffensivephraseblahblahincomprehensable wordsaladblahblahblah


I never ever thought you really believed that ****...... What terrible thing happened to you to make so wrapped up in the you to the exclusion of anybody elses right to hang around too. Seriously.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 18 Oct, 2015 10:15 am
@bobsal u1553115,
Quote:
"Guns, Germs and Steel" by Jared Diamond or "1471: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus" by Charles Mann.


I read it and nowhere did it state the the poor natives was poor innocent and peaceful victims of the evil white culture.

It just try to explain some of the reasons why the European culture was more a advance and more deadly then the native populations they encounter.
 

Related Topics

Columbus Day - Discussion by edgarblythe
A typical American hero - Discussion by JTT
 
Copyright © 2021 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 04/11/2021 at 11:52:13