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How is it good for our economy if technology and robots are taking jobs away from people

 
 
Reply Sun 13 Sep, 2015 10:40 am
I have heard there has been a pattern of old jobs getting replaced by new technology but then new jobs being formed from it. However, I think that is ending. I have read numerous articles as well on this issue. Say someone wants a car. That will be all done online one day so no sales people. Cars are getting to the point of driving themselves as the CEO of Uber has said. Machines in factories can operate themselves. As they get more advanced, all they need is one or two guys on call to come fix it if it breaks. Until robots can fix it and even get to the point of fixing themselves. We already have software to fix computer so why not? The rich are already living like gods. The 99% are going to go extinct, that's it. There is not going to be some communist economy where everybody has everything provided for them. I don't want to live like that anyways. I work hard for what I have.

Along with that, yeah services and products are cheaper because workers don't need to be paid or outsourcing keeps it low due to low country's pay. BUT how will we afford anything if we can't work? Are average (non-rich) humans doomed for the future?
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Sep, 2015 11:39 am
@muracabruno,
One solution is to have the people who want to work do it.
Then everyone else not needed to produce goods & services can live on welfare.

OR, we can face the fact that 'manufacturing jobs' are a lost cause and aren't coming back and see that the only hope is a free market recreational economy.

OR, we can go on endless wars of every type to absorb the excess human capital.

Sounds whacky, but the facts, trends and numbers make these the obvious
choices. Pick one.
Setanta
 
  4  
Reply Sun 15 Nov, 2015 02:04 pm
Replacing jobs with "robots" has been a chimera for decades now. There is no evidence that it happens, and, in fact, Japan provides a good example of how mechanization of assembly line procedures can lead to the expansion of employment through the expansion of production.

The American economy is geared toward research and development, new systems and new technologies. There is still a major durable goods manufacturing sector in the United States.

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

-- C. Little
0 Replies
 
Kolyo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Nov, 2015 02:09 pm
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:

One solution is to have the people who want to work do it.
Then everyone else not needed to produce goods & services can live on welfare.


^ my solution.

(There will still be a huge incentive to work, as those whose rare skills get them the remaining jobs will live much better than those on welfare. )
Quote:

OR, we can face the fact that 'manufacturing jobs' are a lost cause and aren't coming back and see that the only hope is a free market recreational economy.


The paid tour guides will have a hard time competing with those on welfare who are so desperate to make something of themselves that they work as tour guides for free.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 15 Nov, 2015 04:35 pm
The economies purpose is to provide value to humans so I would reword your question: How is it good for us if technology and robots are taking jobs away from people.

The answer is that it is very often not good. Moderns tend to assume that having some combination of less work and more crap will make us happier more fulfilled beings, and it is not the case. But we have a problem, this economic system needs to constantly be turning out more goods and services in order to survive, and if we dont keep consuming more and more goods and services it will collapse. I argue that it is collapsing anyways so we should not let this get in the way of designing a new economy that allows for low consumption. We need to allow for letting people do work that machines could do faster/cheaper because work is one of the things that gives value to life, producing something, doing something, helps to keep us happy and grounded.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Nov, 2015 08:38 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
I argue that it is collapsing anyways so we should not let this get in the way of designing a new economy that allows for low consumption
Just lower consumption is a dead end unless we want to cut the world population drastically, go back to subsistence farming, and give up all automation and mass production. But keeping automation and mass production does not mean it can't be done sustainably.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Nov, 2015 10:37 am
@muracabruno,
muracabruno wrote:
There is not going to be some communist economy where everybody has everything provided for them. I don't want to live like that anyways. I work hard for what I have.

Folks have difficulty envisioning a post-scarcity world.

muracabruno wrote:
Along with that, yeah services and products are cheaper because workers don't need to be paid or outsourcing keeps it low due to low country's pay. BUT how will we afford anything if we can't work? Are average (non-rich) humans doomed for the future?

Average people in the US live a life of incredible luxury compared to the average person 150 years ago.

Indoor plumbing, safe drinking water, fresh fruit and vegetables year around, weather reports, safe housing, fire departments, paved roads, antibiotics, vaccinations, dentistry, world-class entertainment, and let's not forget leisure time.

Automation drives prices down, so that average people can afford more.

Thirty years ago, my computer had 48K of RAM, and a floppy drive. It was around $3000 then ( $7,360.00 roughly in today's dollars). Today, I can buy a machine hundreds of times more powerful for under $300.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Nov, 2015 01:01 pm
@DrewDad,
Quote:
Folks have difficulty envisioning a post-scarcity world.
On the freak'n nose man, that says it all.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  3  
Reply Mon 16 Nov, 2015 01:05 pm
@muracabruno,
This cracks me up.

I can recall my dad going to workshops about 50 years ago - the paperless society, the leisure society etc etc etc

then 40 years ago, while I was at university, I had to go to seminars on how to cope with less work, more leisure. yup yup. Still waiting on having to implement all the things I learned during those seminars.

30 years ago, 25 years ago, 10 years ago ... same seminars at work.

yup yup. still waiting.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Nov, 2015 01:08 pm
@DrewDad,
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Abuyhm-E5Yg/UKvJX5mSP_I/AAAAAAAABbQ/FoNEqRM7IMY/s1600/sr-51.jpg

1 month's salary from my 1974 summer job

another month's salary went to my first hair dryer
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Nov, 2015 01:17 pm
@ehBeth,
Yeah, but I bet it doesn't play Star Raiders or M.U.L.E.!
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Nov, 2015 01:26 pm
@ehBeth,
I remember breaking my piggy bank in order to retired my slide ruler and buy a TI-59 programmable calculator.

Just read that a TI-59 is now on display at the Smithsonian.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Nov, 2015 02:04 pm
@BillRM,
I've still got my slide ruler, but my first calculator is long gone to landfill.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Mon 16 Nov, 2015 04:26 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
I've still got my slide ruler, but my first calculator is long gone to landfill.


My picket log-log slide rule is on display in a cabinet in my living room but I had not used it for 35 years or so.

For one thing I question if I could still keep track of the decimal places/powers in my head as I used to do as a matter of course when working many parts complex problems.

On all my computers I have a TI-59 emulator on the desktop to deal with the few such problems I might still wish to do.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2015 07:47 pm
@ehBeth,
Were you paid .05c/hour?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Mar, 2016 10:19 pm
@DrewDad,
isn't technology wunnerful? Apple is building a saucer shaped office building less than one mile from where we live that will house 12,000 employees. We see the progress of the building often, because we drive by the street almost every day.
The only good thing about that building is the fact that it will put higher demand for homes in our area, and prices will continue to increase.
When we bought here in the mid-seventies, it was just in the conversion phase from rural to housing developments. Our area is called Birdland, because street names are named after birds.
Fortunately for us, the Apple campus and the main freeway is on the south side of our home by a few blocks, so it shouldn't impact traffic too much in our neighborhood.
roger
 
  2  
Reply Mon 7 Mar, 2016 10:38 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Then, thank your lucky stars for Prop 13
roger
 
  2  
Reply Mon 7 Mar, 2016 10:39 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:



then 40 years ago, while I was at university, I had to go to seminars on how to cope with less work, more leisure. yup yup. Still waiting on having to implement all the things I learned during those seminars.



The future belongs to seminar presenters. A good 'presenter' has a much brighter future than someone who actually knows something.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Mar, 2016 11:03 pm
@roger,
Indeed. Our property tax is one of the lowest in our neighborhood, because we have lived here since the mid-seventies. At the max 2%/year, and the base cost of our home, it's nothing compared to our neighbors. You know that old saying, location, location, location. We have it in spades.
0 Replies
 
speedjohn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Mar, 2017 05:09 am
@muracabruno,
Robots paint a depressing picture of the future. Fears about employment track with every new technology. Some companies has organized a “picking challenge” designed to see if robots can grab items from a shelf and place them in a tub. The firm has around 50,000 people working in its warehouses.Employment of these people is in danger.
 

 
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