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* * * How much of the Universe is causally disconnected?

 
 
g day
 
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2004 05:56 pm
Here's an interesting question - given the Universe has inflated past light speed (i.e. age 13.8 billion years, believed diameter 40 billion light years) - how much of the Universe is causally disconnected (so far away light nor any force can never bridge the gap) from large segments of itself?

Obivously the percentage disconnect raises as you move from the past epicenter of the big bang to the edge of the Universe today.

At a maximum the old epic centre of the big bang could observe a sphere of light bubble 13.8 billion light years in radius - so by simple maths and volume of a sphere 4/3 * pi * r^3 that means at the centre you could be affected by 13.8^3 / 20^3 = 33% of the known Universe.

Secondly as the Universe's expansion is accelerating I would guess over time this figure is continually decreasing, not static. So at 1 billion years old the causal connectivity of the epicentre of the big bang to the rest of creation I would view would be significantly higher than 33% (must check this)!

If you were at a point closer than 13.8 billion lightyears from the edge of the Universe this figure would be even lower. Close to the edge you'd have (less than) half a sphere so you would be affected by less than 12% of the Universe.

* * *

So is it true to say the Universe is large and significantly causally disconnected from itself? Maybe this is a prime factor leading to the increasing expansion of space itself.
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NickFun
 
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Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2004 06:01 pm
Causally disconnected? Assuming the Big Bang is real then everything in the universe is connected. Our galaxy is connected to every other galaxy. Of course, we can see the Milky Way and its interaction with Andromeda clearly. Somewhere along the way even the rate of expansion is influenced by every galaxy. Of course, on a cosmic scale we are dealing with something greater than the 6 degrees of separation.
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g day
 
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Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2004 06:55 pm
You can only see or be connected by a force carrier because light or a force travels at a finite speed c.

During the first few moments of creation - less than a split second, the Universe expanded 50,000 times faster than c - that is called inflation. It lasted from time 10 ^ -35 to 10 ^ -34 of a second.

But in that trillionth of a trillionth of a trillionth of a second a discontinuity was created before the laws of Einstein's relativity set in. This discontinuity caused the Universe to become casually disconnected.

Gravity can only affect things after it has propogated. It propogates at speed c, from the epi-centre of the Big bang out. Now because of inflation the opposite edges of the univrse were inflating at over 2 * c because they were travelling in opposite directions; so the gravity wave of one edge / hemisphere of the Universe couldn't catch the receding edge / hemisphere (mostly).

Also if Gravity is quantised (I doubt this) it can't travel forever - because at some finite distance its energy would be less than the minimum energy packet - quanta.
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rosborne979
 
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Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2004 09:02 pm
Re: * * * How much of the Universe is causally disconnected?
g__day wrote:
So is it true to say the Universe is large and significantly causally disconnected from itself? Maybe this is a prime factor leading to the increasing expansion of space itself.


Very interesting conjecture g_day. I have no idea if the logic behind it is correct, but it's a creative idea.

Here's another idea, maybe unrelated. It occurred to me years ago that the expansion of space/time is not just happening between galaxies, but is an expansion of space itself, even at the smallest scales. So the space between atoms (and inside atoms) is expanding as well. I wasn't sure of this, so I used one of those "ask an astronomer" site to confirm, and a grad studend from Cornell confirmed it. I asked if this effect might have any effect on the math currently used to calculate quantum effects, but he said probably not. But he did suggest that it might have some effect on zero point energy calculations, but he wasn't sure.
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g day
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jul, 2004 04:12 pm
That is a difficult one to grapple with. If the 'dimensions' of our Universe are doubling every second say - how would we know? We have no absolute frame of reference to see this wierd behaviour. And relatively it would look identical one second to the next because everything is still in proportion. And all the 100 key constants seem fixed and precisely measured.

But it could be happening gradually - need to ask what does this theoretically mean?
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muddierwaters
 
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Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2004 02:12 am
Thats very interesting... it would be nice to actually be able to measure this effect, but since our instumentation (from the scanning elctron microscope and the particle accelorator to the carpenter's tape measure) would be affected by this postulate as well as well, you say there would be no way to physically prove or disprove this perpetual inflation idea? Since i'm just a college kid (history major) learning more and more about this stuff, and because I think its quite interesting, I would like to know then if this could be used to prove the existance of gravitrons. From what I understand right now, the weak force transmits itself seemingly instantaneously from point A-B, in complete disregard for the law of C, over definitive distances. if the distances aren't actually so finite than the gravitron would have to accelerate on its journey from A-B to appear to be instantaneously affecting the mass at point B and vice versa.

Am I way off track?


Inquiring Minds Like No(No)
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g day
 
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Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2004 05:29 am
No but the 4 forces of relativity are carried by baryons - these are lightspeed limited. Instaneous travel by a force carrier is right out.

I think the easiest way to test this theory is to model it on a supercomputer.
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