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Massive Black Hole Stumps Researchers

 
 
Col Man
 
Reply Fri 2 Jul, 2004 05:41 am
A team of astronomers have found a colossal black hole so ancient, they're not sure how it had enough time to grow to its current size, about 10 billion times the mass of the Sun.

Sitting at the heart of a distant galaxy, the black hole appears to be about 12.7 billion years old, which means it formed just one billion years after the universe began and is one of the oldest supermassive black holes ever known.

The black hole, researchers said, is big enough to hold 1,000 of our own Solar Systems and weighs about as much as all the stars in the Milky Way.

"The universe was awfully young at the time this was formed," said astronomer Roger Romani, a Stanford University associate professor whose team found the object. "It's a bit of a challenge to understand how this black hole got enough mass to reach its size."

Romani told SPACE.com that the black hole is unique because it dates back to just after a period researchers call the 'Dark Ages,' a time when the universe cooled down after the initial Big Bang 13.7 billion years ago. That cooling period lasted about one billion years, when the first black holes, stars and galaxies began to appear, he added. The research appeared June 10 on the online version of Astrophysical Journal Letters.

Invisible to the naked eye, black holes can only be detected by the radiation they spew and their gravitational influence on their stellar neighbors. Astronomers generally agree that black holes come in at least two types, stellar and supermassive. Stellar black holes form from collapsed, massive stars a few times the mass of the Sun, while their supermassive counterparts can reach billions of solar masses.

A supermassive black hole a few million times the mass of the Sun is thought to sit at the center of our own Milky Way galaxy, and some of the largest supermassives seen date have reached up to two billion solar masses, researchers said.

CONTINUED HERE : http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/heavy_blazar_040628.html
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,322 • Replies: 13
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NickFun
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jul, 2004 08:02 am
Maybe when the Universe was new it came with a couple of black holes as part of the original purchase. "Act now and you also get TWO SUPER MASSIVE BLACK HOLES!!"

Just a theory, of course.
0 Replies
 
Tobruk
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jul, 2004 06:16 pm
I'm confused. It has the mass of 10 billion Sols and it has more mass than the entire Milky Way? Sol's a smallish star. Someone help me out here.
0 Replies
 
cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jul, 2004 06:25 pm
My joke cannot be posted here.
0 Replies
 
NickFun
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jul, 2004 07:45 pm
Actually, there are 200 billion sols in the Milky Way.
0 Replies
 
Tobruk
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jul, 2004 07:49 pm
NickFun wrote:
Actually, there are 200 billion sols in the Milky Way.


No there's not. Sol is the name of our star.
0 Replies
 
NickFun
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jul, 2004 08:37 pm
Ooops! I meant to say suns or stars.
0 Replies
 
Col Man
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jul, 2004 05:23 am
i think the paragraph
Quote:
The black hole, researchers said, is big enough to hold 1,000 of our own Solar Systems and weighs about as much as all the stars in the Milky Way.

is a bit of an exaggeration
i have heard quotes of between 100 billion stars and 400 billion stars in our galaxy
and yes i believe our sun is a type g2 yellow dwarf with a diameter of about a million miles and the biggest stars can get up to 1.3 billion miles wide which is enough to extend to saturns orbit in our solar system
and they can weigh a hundred times more than our star
and i dont unerstand what it means by 'big enough' as black holes are usually very compact objects and even if this one were super large i cant see it been the size of a thousand solar systems
whatever the figures its 'the biggest and the oldest black hole we have found' these are the facts
Smile
0 Replies
 
neil
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jul, 2004 10:37 am
Col man is correct: Our sun may have twice the mass of the average main sequence star in our Galaxy = 10^11 solar mass, total. 10^3 = 1000 is a massive error. Neil
0 Replies
 
Col Man
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jul, 2004 10:45 am
thank you Smile its always nice for someone to agree with me Very Happy
0 Replies
 
lucia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jul, 2004 12:57 pm
Re: Massive Black Hole Stumps Researchers
Col Man wrote:
A team of astronomers have found a colossal black hole so ancient, they're not sure how it had enough time to grow to its current size, about 10 billion times the mass of the Sun.

Sitting at the heart of a distant galaxy, the black hole appears to be about 12.7 billion years old, which means it formed just one billion years after the universe began and is one of the oldest supermassive black holes ever known.

The black hole, researchers said, is big enough to hold 1,000 of our own Solar Systems and weighs about as much as all the stars in the Milky Way.

"The universe was awfully young at the time this was formed," said astronomer Roger Romani, a Stanford University associate professor whose team found the object. "It's a bit of a challenge to understand how this black hole got enough mass to reach its size."

Romani told SPACE.com that the black hole is unique because it dates back to just after a period researchers call the 'Dark Ages,' a time when the universe cooled down after the initial Big Bang 13.7 billion years ago. That cooling period lasted about one billion years, when the first black holes, stars and galaxies began to appear, he added. The research appeared June 10 on the online version of Astrophysical Journal Letters.

Invisible to the naked eye, black holes can only be detected by the radiation they spew and their gravitational influence on their stellar neighbors. Astronomers generally agree that black holes come in at least two types, stellar and supermassive. Stellar black holes form from collapsed, massive stars a few times the mass of the Sun, while their supermassive counterparts can reach billions of solar masses.

A supermassive black hole a few million times the mass of the Sun is thought to sit at the center of our own Milky Way galaxy, and some of the largest supermassives seen date have reached up to two billion solar masses, researchers said.

No offense but I think your numbers are inaccurate. It is a colosal blackwhole with the size of 10,000 solar systems and I can only image the gravitational pull and scientists only found it now?


CONTINUED HERE : http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/heavy_blazar_040628.html
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jul, 2004 02:06 pm
Re: Massive Black Hole Stumps Researchers
Tobruk wrote:
I'm confused. It has the mass of 10 billion Sols and it has more mass than the entire Milky Way? Sol's a smallish star. Someone help me out here.


The statements in the article are confusing because they are covering "mass" and "space" as estimates in the same sentence. Also, most people have an assumption that the total mass of stars in our Galaxy is the same as the total mass of the Galaxy, which it isn't (due to dark matter). So the breakdown of the article goes like this...

The Article wrote:
A team of astronomers have found a colossal black hole so ancient, they're not sure how it had enough time to grow to its current size, about 10 billion times the mass of the Sun.


No problem so far, since all they did was tell us the mass of the black hole in relation to our Sun.

The Article wrote:
The black hole, researchers said, is big enough to hold 1,000 of our own Solar Systems


This is a statement of size, not mass, and seems to tell me that the schwartzchild radius of this black hole encloses a region of space which is 1000 times the size of our solar system (I'm assuming that they consider our solar system to be a spherical space, not a flat disk)

The Article wrote:
and weighs about as much as all the stars in the Milky Way.


The Milky way is thought to have a mass of about a trillion times our Sun.

This mass estimate is based on orbital mechanics and observation of the disk, which assumes the presence of dark matter to account for the orbital speeds.

As noted above, the total mass of the stars in the Milky Way is not the same as the total Mass of the Milky Way, due to the presence of dark matter and our own central black hole.

There are about 400 billion stars in the Milky Way in a range of masses.

So what the statement is really implying is that the total mass of all the 400 billion stars in our Milky way is about 10 billion times the mass of our Sun. I haven't confirmed this, but it could be accurate if many of the stars in our Galaxy are less massive than our Sun.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jul, 2004 03:32 pm
I was listening to....somebody.....on the radio today on a drive up to Santa Fe. Seems that Stephen Hawkings who has defined the black hole as no other has done is about to make a monumental announcement that he was very wrong about black holes. Rather than capturing and keeping matter, light, etc. forever, he is now convinced black holes 'leak' material, light etc. now and then and in fact may work much differently than he previousl thought and taught.
0 Replies
 
Col Man
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2004 04:27 pm
Smile
0 Replies
 
 

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