The economic stimulous pkg proposals from the both parties

I haven't seen anything yet in the Bush plan that is a give away to businesses other than an increased credit for capital equipment purchases.

The bulk of the plan is the elimination of income taxes on dividends (which I disagree with to an extent. I think they should continue the tax on dividends from stocks and eliminate taxes on dividends/interest paid on savings accounts.), eliminating the marriage penalty, an increase in child care credits, a 13 week unemployement benefit, and an increase in the maximum amount people can contribute to their IRAs.

The Democrats plan is a $300/$600 rebate (which they ridiculed endlessly when Bush did that previously..), an extension of existing unemployement benefits, another credit to small businesses for capital investments and some aid to states to cover Medicare costs.

Both plans cover a $10 Billion payment to states to cover the Homeland Security initiatives.

I seriously doubt either of these will be a major contributor to the economy in the short term. The Bush plan does more to get total $$ back to people in the long run but the Democrats plan gets more money to the state's coffers.

Giving money to another branch of government is the worst way to stimulate our economy. We all need an immediate tax cut of ten percent off the top for everybody to stimulate our economy. No peacemeal tax rebate of $300/$600 is going to do anything for a ten trillion dollar economy. c.i.

I see the Democratic proposal as a shortsighted, short-term patch with no real effort at resolving the issues which brought about the current downturn. While a few hundred bucks of rebate money has immediate appeal to some, it will do nothing in the way of growing the economy. Encouraging investment, however, both for individuals and businesses, is a proactive measure which will grow the economy. The Republican proposals for Retirement Investment enhancements will give Social Security some breathing room, too. There are other things I like, others I don't. Its not perfect. I'm not thrilled with The Republican Plan, but I think it is more fiscally responsible than is the Democrat's proposal. Something I would very much like to see is a thorough overhaul of our current tax structure, making it more equitable, efficient, and consistent, but that's too much to expect.



timber

Heard a radio commentator questioning the relevance of cutting the tax on dividends when so few companies are paying dividends any more. I'm not a big investor, but it seems like the dividends I'm getting from my stock mutual funds are miniscule. What's the angle here?

D'art, I'm surprised you don't see the 'hidden' agenda of the Bush white house. They are 'again' catering to the rich and famous. Their 'dividend' income is very material.... Bush claims that many retired folks depend on their dividend income. That's hogwash of the worst lies to push his economic stimulus package. c.i.

I don't doubt what you say, c.i. It's our old friend, trickle-down economics, back to bail us out once again!

c.i., I ain't rich, but the major portion of my income now is dividends. I built my portfolio over many years specifically for the purpose. Eliminating the tax on dividends would give me more disposable income. I know lots of folks in my position, too. Also, removing the tax would encourage funds now held in other ways to move back in to stocks. And don't get me started on Capital Gains ... I get really agitated about that.



timber

I think the tax dividend break is the first step in preparing the way for the change in Social Security that is going to take place.

Bush was roundly criticised for his idea to begin shifting the younger tax payers to providing for their retirements via stock investments.

It is coming.

timber, Let's face it; not many people have invested as you have to concentrate on dividend paying equities. That's the reason why most have lost most of their retirement savings during the past three years. You are in the minority, my friend. c.i.

c.i., I think its a matter of assuming personal responsibility. I don't want anything I didn't earn, but damnit, if I earned it, I ought to be able to keep it. I bought that stock with my post-tax money, and the dividends are post-tax profits distributed to the shareholders. BTW ... over 50% of Americans 55 and older receive at least some dividend income.

I have a hard time mustering sympathy for folks who'd rather help themselves to mine instead of earning their own.
I don't have a problem helping those truly in need, but we have generated a class which expects it "will be taken care of". That just ain't right.



timber

fishin' says:



This was originally a Democrat idea that was taken over by Bush. This is more recreation history!

Joe Lieberman


"I was one of the authors of the 2001 tax rebate -- which, as you may recall, President Bush resisted -- that put an average of $300 right in the hands of millions of American taxpayers and took some of the edge off the recession. Now, we should do what we failed to do before: give a new rebate to the 34 million taxpayers who didn't get one in 2001. These are primarily low-income workers who don't pay taxes -- precisely the people who are most likely to spend their checks immediately, and help lift up sagging spending."

http://www.senate.gov/~lieberman/speeches/02/10/2002A18832.html

Timber says:



but we have generated a class which also believes that they deserve far more than anybody else and it is their preordained right to get all they can get - this is called greed! And Bush will give undo amounts of American spoils over and over again to the wealthy.

It is a class war, it is redistribution of wealth and it is redistribution of wealth to the wealthy. There will be class war if this continues, in my most humble opinion!

BillW, I see a flaw in that approach. The Consumer IS spending, in fact The Consumer is what's keeping the economy from totally tanking, but the RATE of Growth of consumer spending has slowed. A significant inhibitor of business, and hence a negative influence on both employment and capital spending, is the current inconsistent, contradictory, and often even broadly counterproductive jumble of taxes and regulations. We can have responsible ecologic behavior without crippling industry. But not with our current system. We can have affordable, available medical care, a second-to-none educational system, an elder population with means to comfortable, meaningful living ... but not with our current system.

To my perception, the Dems offer more of the same, while the GOP seems to be taking steps to correct the problem. I agree with some of those steps, disagree with others, but its an attempt to deal with the problem. I think the Dems proposal an attempt to provide immediate but transient help, and does nothing to address the reasons there is a problem in the first place.



timber

I simply could not categorically disagree more. It is purely a repayment to the wealthiest for the great election. This is a shame and immoral - period!

I simply could not categorically disagree more. It is purely a repayment to the wealthiest for the great election. This is a shame and immoral - period!

See, it got me so worked up I had to post it twice!

Americans are wary of Bush tax cut plan, yearly survey finds

12/31/02

Will Lester
Associated Press


Washington- Americans believe by 2 to 1 that it's prudent to hold off on more tax cuts, a centerpiece of President Bush's domestic policy agenda, an Associated Press poll suggests.

The Tax Cut Trap




Monday, January 6, 2003; Page A14


LET'S SEE IF we have this right. President Bush plans to propose a stimulus plan the centerpiece of which will have little or no stimulative effect. At a time when some people badly could use help, Mr. Bush's tax cut mostly will help those who need it least. And while the president is warning Congress to restrain its spending on basics such as education and aid to the poor, the tax cuts will further inflate his growing budget deficit. No wonder that Mr. Bush, even before officially unveiling the plan tomorrow, waved his magic "class warfare" amulet, seeking to obscure the obvious -- another tax cut for the rich -- by preemptively accusing his accusers.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A15014-2003Jan5?language=printer