Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2015 06:57 pm
@FOUND SOUL,
You are in error ... I did not give the cost per prisoner . I gave the total cost of all convicted of murder (not manslaughter) being kept alive in Australia PER DAY .

Quote:
You talk about rape/murder / money but you don't talk about the safety of "us" Australians by keeping those monsters such as Ivan Milat in jail for life.
We would be safe if he was executed though, wouldnt we ? Again you have missed the point .

Quote:
It's not all about money.......
Tell that to dying children awaiting research money for a cure . They have been denied money .
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2015 06:58 pm
@FOUND SOUL,
Quote:
Strangely enough "they" those two boys "did" assist in reforming other prisoners and themselves..
Dont you have to be out if gaol to be labelled reformed ?
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2015 07:00 pm
@FOUND SOUL,
Quote:
let's not take into account that the harden criminals are isolated for the most part
The biggest problem with prisons being a reform centre is the mixing of hardened criminals with minor lesser criminals .
0 Replies
 
cherrie
 
  0  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2015 09:54 pm
@FOUND SOUL,
Quote:
They were kids.


No Foundy, they weren't kids. Chan was 21, and Sukumaran 24 when they were arrested. They were young, yes, but certainly old enough to know what they were doing.

We all made mistakes when we were young, but usually that was because we acted impulsively and didn't think things through. What they did was carefully thought out and planned for months ahead of time. They apparently coerced and bullied others into helping them and stood to make a great deal of money if it had all gone to plan.

But they were also fully aware of what could happen to them if it all went wrong.

The bottom line is that Indonesia executes people, they knew that, and still chose to take the chance.

Such is life.
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2015 10:15 pm
Ionus is giving me a real Bernard Gaynor vibe.
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2015 10:20 pm
@cherrie,
As I stated in my earlier post, I don't have huge sympathy for them. That doesn't mean I'm any less opposed to the death penalty. We shouldn't make demands of other nations regarding their justice systems, but that doesn't mean we can't make representations of our feelings. That includes our close ally the US.
The galling part of the whole situation was the pathetic antics of Indonesia. Aid should be re-directed.
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2015 01:03 am
@Wilso,
Never heard of him, but if he agrees with me he must be very clever indeed .
0 Replies
 
cherrie
 
  0  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2015 02:38 am
@Wilso,
Quote:
That doesn't mean I'm any less opposed to the death penalty


I'm not in favour of the death penalty either, but the point is that Indonesia has it, and we can't do anything about that. They have the right to enforce justice in the way that they see fit, even if we don't agree with them. As you said, we can tell them how we feel, but that's it. Obviously they really don't give a **** what we think about it.

And yes, the way Indonesia handled this whole thing was appalling.
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2015 03:22 am
@FOUND SOUL,
Quote:
there is no mention of their efforts in trying to locate the girl "then 22" that they believed supplied the drugs
She might be an undercover agent.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2015 03:23 am
@FOUND SOUL,
Quote:
a person on Death Row if that is the law, should not live another 10 years to then be told they are to be executed.
It seems cruel, but that is the process of the law. You take a ticket and stand in line to be heard . Multiple appeals drag out the process .
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2015 04:09 am
@FOUND SOUL,
FOUND SOUL wrote:
Do you think that Australia did wrong by telling Indonesia knowing that the price is death? It was a lot of heroin.

If I were Australia, I'd revise my policies and no longer notify Indonesia of crime/criminals.

Australia could still try to catch criminals if they enter Australian territory and still notify friendly countries of criminals/crimes.


FOUND SOUL wrote:
Tony Abbott threatening Indonesia, wrong?

I haven't heard about this. What threat is this?
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2015 04:09 am
@Wilso,
Wilso wrote:
The moron Abbott raised previous aid that we'd given them. Probably stupid, but most of what he says and does is.

I don't see what is stupid about it. He was asking for kindness from them, and was reminding them of Australia's past kindness towards them.

I was offended at Indonesia's reaction to his plea for mercy. The next time Indonesia suffers a horrible disaster, I'm going to make fun of their suffering and be a real dick about it.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2015 04:09 am
@Wilso,
Wilso wrote:
We shouldn't make demands of other nations regarding their justice systems, but

I disagree. If a nation's justice system is offensive to civilized people, civilized people should demand that they reform.

Given the way we (the US) wantonly execute innocent people, I've no objection at all to people telling us to stop doing it.
0 Replies
 
FOUND SOUL
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2015 04:29 am
@Ionus,
So it costs 2.4 million dollars per annum to keep "people" in jail but you believe 2.4 million dollars (for murderers only) mmm that's strange, same amount of money they must all be murderers then no rapists/ no petty theft, no arson, no attempted murders... Same amount of money though.
FOUND SOUL
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2015 04:31 am
@cherrie,
True, they knew the risks.

Chez, men are 4 years our junior "apparently mentally" makes them 17 and 20.. Having said that, men are 10 years or more our junior when they are over 45 or so Smile

Midlife crisis you know.

What guys? Wink
0 Replies
 
FOUND SOUL
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2015 04:32 am
@cherrie,
Quote:
And yes, the way Indonesia handled this whole thing was appalling.


I could think of worse words and I guess this is my "main" gripe of it all.
0 Replies
 
FOUND SOUL
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2015 04:34 am
@Ionus,
She wasn't an undercover Agent.

She flew the country real quick and probably under an assumed name in Indonesia.

She more than likely was covered before she even got there.

Then again if she was Indonesian they wouldn't even bother, it's not what they were after.
FOUND SOUL
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2015 04:34 am
@Ionus,
Quote:
It seems cruel, but that is the process of the law. You take a ticket and stand in line to be heard . Multiple appeals drag out the process .


What about the ongoing ones that got ignored such as corruption.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2015 04:53 am
@FOUND SOUL,
Quote:
It costs $2.4 million dollars per DAY to keep murderers in Australian gaols .
Quote:
You are in error ... I did not give the cost per prisoner . I gave the total cost of all convicted of murder (not manslaughter) being kept alive in Australia PER DAY .
Those are both times I tried to explain it . I dont know what more I can do...

Quote:
So it costs 2.4 million dollars per annum to keep "people" in jail
Where did you get this from ?
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2015 04:54 am
@FOUND SOUL,
Quote:
She wasn't an undercover Agent.
Are you a member of the Indonesian Police ? Or do they tell you what they are doing anyway ?
0 Replies
 
 

 
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