Women. Religion’s longest running victims.

@maxdancona,

Wow... Spain was ruled by ISABEL La Catolica and Fernando de Aragon... and Spain was deprived the right to trade with slave by UK and Portugal, we were just paid to transport them.overseas.
Second Isabel La Catolica is not remenber as an evil monarch at all and let me remind you Women momarchs number is insignificant compared to Male ones when talking about wars and invasions past events

1 Reply

@momoends,

Momoends, you are completely ignoring any facts that don't support your narrative.

Let's start with what I think are undeniable facts.

1. Isabel was the monarch and held the considerable economic and political power of the Spanish colonial empire.

2. The conquistadors were stealing land, comitting brutal acts and taking people slaves were working at her command. She was giving the orders and she was profiting from it.

3. She was brought back slaves. These were human beings in chains that were taken from their homes by force and the she considered her property.

4. This meant that she knew that human beings were being robbed from their homes by force and used as property and that she was participating and supporting this practice.

Are there any of these facts that you dispute?

After we establish the facts, we can then get into a discussion about whether the practice of slavery, or Isabella's participation in it, was evil or not. This discussion will be more subjective (evil is a subjective judgement).

But we can't have this discussion unless you accept the objective facts first. It doesn't seem like your political bias will allow you to do this.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

Cant see any difference with other kings in history..... and what does that have to do with the original thread?

1 Reply

@momoends,

That is exactly my point.

Isabella was a female monarch, who just like male monarchs, used her power to subjugate and enslave men and women. I am showing that the ideological narrative of women always being victims is factually incorrect. There are many cases where women are the oppressors. The facts show that in my country that White women who owned slaves forced their slaves to have sex with them (a practice which meets my definition of rape).

This is a fact. It complicates your simplistic narrative.

1 Reply

@AugustineBrother,

AugustineBrother wrote:

This woman disagrees. You are hateful and stupid.
I will decide if I am a victim, thank you. You shut up and mind your own business.

Your self-centeredness is quite apparent and so is the fact the you do not do unto others. So much for you caring about other women.

Regards
DL

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

I think women were victims in many cultures, and not necessarily based on religion.

No argument. They were then and there might have been good reasons for it but there are no good reasons today.

Regards
DL

0 Replies

There have always been special women in the Bible -
Miriam who saved her baby brother Moses from death when she was just a child;
Deborah, prophetess, judge and military leader;
Huldah who taught at the college in Jerusalem.;
Rahab the prostitute who sheltered the two fugitive Israelis,
The evangelist Philip had four daughters who were prophetesses;
The early Christian sect in Phrygia was led by Montanus and two prophetesses, Priscilla and Maximilla..

And Paul paid glowing tributes to women -"I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a servant of the church in Cenchrea..she has been a great help to many people, including me..
Greet Priscilla , my fellow worker in Christ Jesus, she risked her life for me.
Greet Mary, who worked very hard for you..
Greet Tryphena and Tryphosa and Persis, those women who work hard in the Lord.
Greet Rufus, chosen in the Lord, and his mother, who has been a mother to me, too.
Greet Julia.." (Romans ch 16)
And he reminds us -
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus" (Galatians 3:28)
And- "Control yourselves honourably, not in lust like the heathens" (1 Thess 4:4/5)
Jesus said to the snooty priests-"The prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you" (Matt 21:31)

2 Replies

@High Strangeness,

High Strangeness wrote:

There have always been special women in the Bible -
Miriam who saved her baby brother Moses from death when she was just a child;
Deborah, prophetess, judge and military leader;
Huldah who taught at the college in Jerusalem.;
Rahab the prostitute who sheltered the two fugitive Israelis,
The evangelist Philip had four daughters who were prophetesses;
The early Christian sect in Phrygia was led by Montanus and two prophetesses, Priscilla and Maximilla..

And Paul paid glowing tributes to women -"I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a servant of the church in Cenchrea..she has been a great help to many people, including me..
Greet Priscilla , my fellow worker in Christ Jesus, she risked her life for me.
Greet Mary, who worked very hard for you..
Greet Tryphena and Tryphosa and Persis, those women who work hard in the Lord.
Greet Rufus, chosen in the Lord, and his mother, who has been a mother to me, too.
Greet Julia.." (Romans ch 16)
And he reminds us -
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus" (Galatians 3:28)
And- "Control yourselves honourably, not in lust like the heathens" (1 Thess 4:4/5)
Jesus said to the snooty priests-"The prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you" (Matt 21:31)

Speaking of prostitutes and Jesus. He said not to judge and then turned around and judged her as sinful.

As to women in scriptures, let me adlib. Sit at the back of the church and shut up as you are not fit to teach men anything. Also, let men rule over you from Genesis.

That is a lot of respect from the bible for women and showing equality. Right? ---- Note the sarcasm please.

Here is an eye opener for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcJLGMsLfSI#t=163

Regards
DL

1 Reply

Go girls.. Smile

DAILY MAIL ONLINE (British)-
"Half of all vicars will be women 'by 2025'
When Dawn French was appointed Vicar of Dibley in the BBC comedy, women priests in real life were a rarity.
Today, almost half of newly-ordained priests are female and by the year 2025 they will form half of all Church of England clergy according to a study"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-474953/Half-vicars-women-2025.html

1 Reply

@High Strangeness,

It seems the bible god punishes all of mankind because someone ate an apple and a woman looked back. He flooded the world and killed everybody except Noah's family. A righteous god he isn't. More like a sadist.

Genesis narrative[edit]
See also: Sodom and Gomorrah § Judgment

The Sodom and Gomorrah motif from the Nuremberg Chronicle by Hartmann Schedel, 1493. Note Lot's wife, already transformed into a salt pillar, in the center.
The narrative of Lot's wife begins in Genesis 19 after two angels arrived in Sodom, at eventide, and were invited to spend the night at Lot's home. As dawn was breaking, Lot's visiting angels urged him to get his family and flee, so as to avoid being caught in the impending disaster for the iniquity of the city. Lot delayed, so the angels took hold of his hand, his wife's hand and his daughters and brought them out of the city. The command was given, "Flee for your life! Do not look behind you, nor stop anywhere in the Plain; flee to the hills, lest you be swept away."[1] Lot objected to the idea of fleeing to the hills and requested safe haven at a little town nearby. The request was granted and the town became known as Zoar. Traveling behind her husband, Lot's wife looked back, and became a pillar of salt.[2]

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@Greatest I am,

Quote:

..As to women in scriptures, let me adlib. Sit at the back of the church and shut up as you are not fit to teach men anything. Also, let men rule over you from Genesis...

It'd help if you quoted chapter and verse (like i do) so we can surgically dissect things in context.
If you're talking about Paul telling some loud women to stop their yapping in an early church, serves 'em right for treating the place as a coffee morning for chat and gossip.. Smile

And Genesis is Old T stuff which hardboiled fire-and-brimstone fundies love to bits, I hope you're not one of them.. Wink

1 Reply

@High Strangeness,

High Strangeness wrote:

Go girls..

DAILY MAIL ONLINE (British)-
"Half of all vicars will be women 'by 2025'
When Dawn French was appointed Vicar of Dibley in the BBC comedy, women priests in real life were a rarity.
Today, almost half of newly-ordained priests are female and by the year 2025 they will form half of all Church of England clergy according to a study"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-474953/Half-vicars-women-2025.html

Sure, while women are locked out of the heist church positions. YAAAAAh.

I guess that you have not noted that all the Western churches are having trouble finding new priests.

Necessity is what is creating the change, Not your immoral church hierarchy.

Regards
DL

2 Replies

@High Strangeness,

High Strangeness wrote:

Quote:
..As to women in scriptures, let me adlib. Sit at the back of the church and shut up as you are not fit to teach men anything. Also, let men rule over you from Genesis...

It'd help if you quoted chapter and verse (like i do) so we can surgically dissect things in context.
If you're talking about Paul telling some loud women to stop their yapping in an early church, serves 'em right for treating the place as a coffee morning for chat and gossip..
And Genesis is Old T stuff which hardboiled fire-and-brimstone fundies love to bits, I hope you're not one of them..

Nice apology. Not.

Christianity is a homophobic and misogynous creed and you cannot get away from that fact.

Regards
DL

0 Replies

@Greatest I am,

Quote:

Sure, while women are locked out of the heist church positions. YAAAAAh.
I guess that you have not noted that all the Western churches are having trouble finding new priests.
Necessity is what is creating the change, Not your immoral church hierarchy.

But the times they are a-changing.. Smile

A few years ago most of the big shot Church of England male fuddy-duddies voted against having women bishops, but there was such a public outcry that they did a u-turn.. Smile

But strictly speaking we don't need clergy and organised religion anyway because we don't need them to do our thinking for us.. Smile

Jesus said:-"You have one teacher, me" (Matt 23:10)

1 Reply

@Greatest I am,

Quote:

Christianity is a homophobic and misogynous creed and you cannot get away from that fact.

I think you're getting mixed up with Islam.. Wink

0 Replies

@maxdancona,

simplistic? im not talking about whiten women.... im talking about women in general? you are obsessed with "white" and "sex"

1 Reply

@momoends,

This is a thread about who are the people in history who are "victims". This thread is making the claim that women are the "longest running victims". I am disagreeing with that claim.

I claim that racial oppression has been a greater problem throughout history and still remains a greater problem. I have given plenty of evidence for this.

In the history of your country, and of mine, White supremacy has been a fact for centuries. In your country, and in mine, men of color have been enslaved, abused and even raped by women with economic and political power over them.

It seems that you can't accept this documented fact... that as part of racial oppression women have had power over men (based on racial supremacy) and have used it to oppress people of color.

You can't even acknowledge this fact. This is why I am suggesting your ideology is simplistic. A well thought out belief at least accepts the facts even when they bring the narrative in question.

1 Reply

@High Strangeness,

High Strangeness wrote:

Quote:
Sure, while women are locked out of the heist church positions. YAAAAAh.
I guess that you have not noted that all the Western churches are having trouble finding new priests.
Necessity is what is creating the change, Not your immoral church hierarchy.

But the times they are a-changing..
A few years ago most of the big shot Church of England male fuddy-duddies voted against having women bishops, but there was such a public outcry that they did a u-turn..
But strictly speaking we don't need clergy and organised religion anyway because we don't need them to do our thinking for us..
Jesus said:-"You have one teacher, me" (Matt 23:10)

Indeed.

The ancient scribes were encouraging us to develop a Christ mind even then.

Although many give that idea lip service, few actually make the effort.

Regards
DL

0 Replies

@maxdancona,

there are black women out there too... you seem you don´t even give them the credit to exist ..... equality is not an ideology.....and we are talking about religion.... stop thinking about sex... being tortured and murdered is a wider concept that rape... you are obsessed. talking about rape all the time is being simplistic enough.... you are not worth the effort

1 Reply

@momoends,

momoends wrote:

there are black women out there too... you seem you don´t even give them the credit to exist ..... equality is not an ideology.....and we are talking about religion.... stop thinking about sex... being tortured and murdered is a wider concept that rape... you are obsessed. talking about rape all the time is being simplistic enough.... you are not worth the effort

What. Get the quote before making baseless accusations.

Regards
DL

1 Reply

Women. Religion’s longest running victims.

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