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Is it immoral to have children?

 
 
Reply Tue 11 Feb, 2014 04:48 am
Since it's immoral to cause suffering and when you bring a child into life you are forcing her to live in a world which contains suffering. No child could consent to be born and will inevitably suffer in her life. What if the child would prefer never to have existed in first place?
Existence involves a serious possibility for harm, Is it immoral to have children?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 8 • Views: 2,407 • Replies: 29
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Romeo Fabulini
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 11 Feb, 2014 05:12 am
Humans come equipped with the anatomy to have kids, so i suppose we can't argue with God for making us that way..
Personally I never married or had kids because I never wanted to be a family man.
Also monks and nuns don't do family either, so it's a matter of personal choice.
Paul in the bible said it's fine to marry, and that it's also fine not to marry, your choice..Smile
Calamity Dal
 
  2  
Reply Tue 11 Feb, 2014 09:51 am
@Romeo Fabulini,
I have had Romeo explain it a few times to me and I think I understand now. The Earth was made to test your children via anything we people on earth can come up with, multiplied by the influence of the devil. So any evil that befalls you, it is all a part of his gods will. If you are too traumatised to believe in god after all that suffering, he will make you suffer to eternity and beyond in a hellfire.

If Romeo were to be believed, then yes, it would be immoral to have children.

The fact that he did not procreate is proof that his god does have some mercy.
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  0  
Reply Wed 12 Feb, 2014 05:27 am
Quote:
Calamity said: Romeo said the Earth was made to test your children via anything we people on earth can come up with, multiplied by the influence of the devil. So any evil that befalls you, it is all a part of his gods will

Nah, remember a huge amount of suffering is caused by human incompetence and mismanagement, plus of course Satan can be a bit of a rotter to make things worse, for example Jesus said "Satan has bound this crippled woman for eighteen years" (Luke 13:16) then he cured her..Smile
Calamity Dal
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Feb, 2014 03:52 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
If the purpose of the earth is a test for mankind, and your god does not condone or intend for the test to be carried out in the way it is, then he is unjust for allowing even one man to suffer rape murder or abuse.
Rather, if the test is balanced and fair in gods eyes, then he both condones and intends for man to be raped murdered and abused.

Why is Satan allowed to roam the earth?

Either your god set him on the earth to really draw out the evil in man as part of his test, or he is unwilling to remove him, therefore condoning the work of the devil.

How do you escape the paradox that you create for your god? Ignoring a single point I make does not make it less true
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Feb, 2014 04:29 pm
@Ashleighx,
I 've been very moral. Not a single child have I had.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Feb, 2014 04:31 pm

I 'm glad that I have rescued
all the children whom I have not had from the need to pay taxes.





David
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Feb, 2014 04:47 pm
Some people believe that children are a means to confer immortality, but i think . . .

(What ? ! ? ! ?)

(Oh Please, have your read that opening post? That can't have been serious.)

(Are you sure?)

Uhm . . . OK . . . i've decided to act as though that was a serious question . . . never mind.
Calamity Dal
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Feb, 2014 04:56 pm
@Setanta,
The things a guy has to resort to to have a decent conversation these days
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Feb, 2014 05:07 pm
@Calamity Dal,
I would only converse with you if i wanted an indecent conversation.
Calamity Dal
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Feb, 2014 05:25 pm
@Setanta,
You'll be pleased to know it is as appealing to me as to you. G'night!
Ashleighx
 
  0  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2014 04:17 am
@Ashleighx,
I believe having children can be one of the most cruel and selfish acts imaginable. Bringing a child into this horrible world is simply immoral. Parents impose misery on an innocent child's life to please themselves.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2014 04:30 am
@Calamity Dal,
I made no comment on the appeal of any such conversation, but i'm not surprised that you didn't understand that. You seem to have a jaundiced attitude toward others.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2014 04:55 am
@Ashleighx,
There is a fundamental flaw in your premises, which is that it is immoral to inflict suffering. One might make a good case that it is immoral to intentionally inflict suffering--but a claim that inflicting suffering is, in and of itself, immoral, won't stand up to scrutiny. If you unknowingly step on an insect without killing said insect, would you be immoral for inflicting suffering? If you were with a group of friends in a public place and ridiculed the outfit that someone were wearing, while, unknown to you, someone wearing that same outfit stood behind you, would you be guilty of moral turpitude because they suffered shame or embarrassment?

I have to wonder what your personal background is for you to make such a claim about bearing children. It seems that you might have some anger or resentment--i don't know, of course. Neither people nor life is as simple, or as cut and dried, as your thesis seems to suggest. People have children for many reasons, some which might be thought bad, some which might be thought good. I know of many families in which the members are happy and loving, and care for one another. Have any members of that family ever suffered? Of course they have. The bible tells us: Yet man is born unto trouble, as the sparks fly upward. (I'm not religious and mean no religious implications in quoting that--it is foolish not to recognize wisdom wherever one finds it.) Suffering is a part of life just as is joy.

Which leads us to the other major flaw in your premises. Do people want to end their lives because of suffering--perhaps, but i doubt that that attitude is very common. You could take a good lesson from dogs. Earlier i mentioned inflicting unintentional suffering by unknowingly inflicting suffering by stepping on an insect. But what about unknowingly hitting a dog while you're driving? I've known several three-legged dogs, including one who had the normal equipment, but who lost one leg when she was struck by a bus. Would she have rather died than suffer as she did? Don't you believe it. Within days she had adjusted to her injury and she was a lively and happy dog who loved her human and canine friends and who got as much joy out of life as possible.

I strongly suggest that you re-evaluate your premises and spend some more time thinking about suffering. Now, if you'll excuse me, one of our little rescue dogs just came downstairs looking for some love, and i'm happy to give it to her.
Ashleighx
 
  0  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2014 05:26 am
@Ashleighx,
Are there only christians in this forum?
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2014 05:33 am
@Ashleighx,
Jesus wept . . . i'm not a christian, i'm not even a theist. I don't think there is any more point in talking to you. Maybe when you grow up, you would make an interesting conversationalist.
0 Replies
 
Ashleighx
 
  0  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2014 05:52 am
@Setanta,

I will answer to this anyway. Parents don't cause suffer intentionally but they are aware of the possibility of suffering , and still have children to please themselves. We are still morally reponsible for causing harm even if we didn't intend to cause harm.
Like if you throw a child in the jungle and a lion comes and kills the child. You can't blame it all on the lion, you also have commited immorality for throwing someone in a place which involves risks for harm.

As for people who suffer but still want to live, they can't universalize their values onto others. Many people suffer and prefer not to have existed. When someone is brought into life this person didn't consent to participate of the game of life. There is a violation of consent here. Thus is immorality.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2014 06:12 am
@Ashleighx,
Ashleighx wrote:
. . . Many people suffer and prefer not to have existed. . . .
Please explain how u know this. Thank u.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2014 06:12 am
@Ashleighx,
Don't do me any favors--you're largely incoherent, and you're just imagining scenarios to suit your confirmation bias. You have a great deal to learn about life and morality. It seems obvious to me, though, that you're not listening. You've got this goofy idea in your head, and you don't want to discuss it, you just want to insist on it. Bye.
0 Replies
 
Calamity Dal
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2014 07:41 am
@Setanta,
As opposed to your delightful manner? Point taken though, my wife seems to agree with you.
 

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