Moral Relativity: Where moral values come from?

But learning to respect individualism goes against their religious beliefs...when in minority number ...well not as bad but if the demographics change all you have to look is at the Muslim countries to see what the future holds. Hope is not enough..there is concrete evidence as to how they think based on their religious beliefs. Good luck France.

Something so obvious is denied by almost everyone here. Why is that?

Such ignorance is breath taking. Take a little time to read about the following countries.

1. Rwanda
2. Turkey
3. Democratic Republic of the Congo
4. Indonesia

Then come back and tell us if you have figured out anything.

There are plenty of Christians who need to learn the right of the individual to self-determination.

Try being a homosexual in a Conservative Christian community.

This is a problem with all religions (not any one in particular).

First hand experience?

Let me elaborate..First I'm not defending Christianity. I'm aware of the atrocities committed in the name of Chritianity. Most people that practice Christianity in the U.S. practice it more so as a social exercise than a religion. I'm no expert and have never claimed to be. Yes there is a difference I converted countries But:

Congo- 12/19/13- in a statement to U.S. Embassy the leader of COMICO, expressed his concerns of the impact of poverty in breeding radical tendencies( Think Africa Press). Recent estimates by U.S. Dept. suggest Muslims constitute 10%of the Congolese population.

Indonesia - although the government recognizes other established religions, many actions prevent other religions from growing or gaining momentum. Anti Christian persecution exists. 3/21/13 - local officials demolish Christan church.
They make it very difficult to obtain building permits. The HKBP SETU ( Protestant church) had struggled to obtain a permit to build in 1999(Jakarta Post). This was done in an underhanded way..there was no written order from head of Bekasi.
Hundreds of Christians hit the streets of Indonesia's capital after local officials demolish church building and threaten to close others at behest of Islamic forces (New Delhi Morning Star News)

Rwanda- although no accurate census has been done Muslim leaders estimate 1 million followers ( 15% population). That does represent doubling in the past ten years.

Turkey-- A recent poll by Sabanci University revealed the majority of the population Muslim ...here's the big but
16% extremely religious
39% somewhat religious ( on the fence)
32% Not religious

Also forgot to say being an Atheist or Agnostic is considered blasphemy and against the law in Indonesia .

Adding: the true separation of church and state comes to mind. Countries ( regardless of religion) have a right to attempt to preserve their culture and values. A good reason is because some changes can destabilize a country or culture. I believe this plays a strong role in in the immigration policies of various countries. No perfect culture or Utopia exists but if I had to chose I'd opt for the one that offers the most freedom of thought. Also I'm not a racist or bigot and don't discredit how the association with others can enhance a culture by the introduction of fresh perspectives.

I agree. But at least you are not incarcerated or exiled.

I strongly support Freedom of religion, which is exactly the point. We live a diverse constitutional democracy. Islam has the same rights in society as Christianity.

If you agree with that, then we are OK.

I challenge the idea that all Islamic countries can be lumped together to make some broad generalization about religion. There is a big difference in the experience of countries as diverse as Turkey, Indonesia, Azherbijan and Syria. You can find anecdotes to support any prejudice. If you look at reality as a whole, your prejudice isn't as reasonable as you think it is.

If you are saying that religion, in general, has more influence on society than I would like, then of course I agree. However, in the US it isn't Islam that is influencing society.

In that case Islam should be attacked and ridiculed just like Christianity. But people like you can not have that. Why is it like that?

Oh yeah, some bigotry for you.


http://www.truthrevolt.org/petition/stop-aes-anti-religious-bigotry

Yes. That is exactly what I am saying.

Is that why you said this?

I would strongly object to anyone who seriously...

1. Suggested that Christianity was a religion of violence.
2. Suggested that the Christian religion advocated child rape (or other cruelty to children).
3. Tried to block a church from being built for religious reasons.
4. Tried to keep Christians from entering the country.
5. Got upset that an elected official using a Bible to take an oath of office.

No one is defaming Christians the same way that you are defaming Muslims. If they were, I would object to their bigotry the same way that I object to yours.

Because the fact is they can't. Christianity does not contain verses sanctioning murder and terror. Islam does. And that is also a fact.

And there are a substantial number of Islamists doing just that. You see it is not bigotry. It is based on facts that you deny because you think like a victim. You are a tolerance bully and only want your side known and cannot back it up with any facts whatsoever when it comes to the doctrines of both religions.

In short, you do not know a ******* thing about either.

So..we all agree

I've never said all countries of any sort can be lumped together . If you actually listen to my statements that is an impossibility . But in the present time I think certain values are at stake..wouldn't you agree.

That Max is an idiot? Yes, I agree.

You haven't read the Bible, have you.

I have forgotten more than you will ever know. And I am speaking of Christianity, not the Old Testament. That is the religion being attacked by modern bigots just like you. And I wouldn't be surprised if it is OK to attack Jews also. Anyone but Muslims because they may kill you.

Or knock you down and pull your skirt up.