Moral Relativity: Where moral values come from?

Too bad you don't understand exactly what those things really mean.

I was simply referring to wether or not you think the French should do anything about immigration control?

I think the French have a lot of work to build a society that is accepting and inclusive of everyone who lives and has roots in France.

The US does a much better job. I am proud of my country.

I get that but how do you think it should be handled(original question)?

I think I answered your question Germlat... unless I don't understand what you are asking.

In the case of France, I think they need to accept that Islam is part of their society. Their history is one of colonization and the use of labor from their colonial properties. This brought Islam (and other cultures) into the French society.

They need to be more accepting and work to build an inclusive fair society. Giving French women the freedom to wear headscarves would be part of it. Changing immigration policy to Jus Soli (i.e. birthright citizenship) would be another part. I am sure there are plenty of other details that I would be happen to answer if you bring them up.

In the case of the US; we already have constitutional protections for US citizens who want to speak Spanish or wear headscarves and we already have birthright citizenship. We obviously need "immigration reform" (i.e. handling people who have become part of US society without being legally incorporated) but compared compared to France, the US is doing very well.

Does this answer your question?

They are not headscarfs. They are Islamic dress that only reveal the eyes of whoever wears them. Men can wear them too. And have and do to commit acts of terror and sedition. Thanks to Islam identifying people is now a top priority.

Sure ColdJoint. And the US Constitution gives every American, including you or I, the freedom to wear one.

I think this Freedom is a pretty good thing.

That statement speaks for itself, doesn't it?

I thought so.

I thought so.

Sure you did.

A specific reply on wether or not immigration should be addressed amend how so... If you believe in moral relativity there is no right or wrong.

Not necessarily..there are headscarves which only include the head. I happen to think if you are a French Muslim you should be awarded the privilege to practice your faith. As long as there isn't a destructive element to society..I don't see the harm.

Huh? I obviously think that immigration should be addressed. I feel that my previous response was pretty specific on how. Anyone living and working here should be given the ability to participate fully in society as equals to anyone else. I don't know how to make this any clearer. Maybe if you ask more specific questions I could give more specific answers.



No. Moral relativity means that there is no absolute right or wrong. Obviously I believe that there is right and wrong. I have no problem telling you that equality and freedom are right and good and that bigotry is wrong. And, it is pretty clear that equality and freedom are American values.

The only difference between my values and those of moral absolutists is that I take responsibility for these moral values. They are part of who I am as a person and the society that I want to live in (obviously both of these are deeply impacted by the culture in which I was raised). I don't need to believe that my values come from God or from any absolute truth of the Universe.

So if it suits your definition nobody's views are absolutely wrong or right. It is a matter of relative experience...but anyway how would you handle the immigration issue in France or in the U.S for that matter..I'm very interested in what your ideas are..we never seem to get there.

What the heck do you want Germlat?

I am being pretty specific....

In France.
1. Give freedom of religious expression (e.g. headscarves).
2. Switch to a system of birthright citizenship so that every immigrant group is part of society and is vested in it.

In the US.
1. Pass immigration reform that ensures that people who are living, working and raising families here can participate fully in society.
2. Make sure that the we continue, as a society, to speak up against the minority in this country who want to make the US less inclusive.
3. Make immigration easier and support the inclusion of new groups into the general society.

I am giving you a lot here. You are asking a very broad general question... you are going to have to do better.

What about the immigrants that are yet to be admitted since that is what would impact the projected demographics. Should the changes favor the views of the majority? Would favoring immigration of minority groups bring about an element of instability?

I don't know what you mean by projected demographics.

Are suggesting that we should keep some artificial quota on the percentage of each racial or ethnic group? Should we care about how many of us are White Protestants?

I don't know if you are aware of the history of this idea in the US. It was the basis of our immigration policy from the early 1900s until it was ditched in 1965.

It was blatantly racist. And it sucked.

To answer your question directly; I don't think that "projected demographics" should be considered when it comes to immigration. Doing so goes against the American ideals of freedom and equality.

I was talking about France.. It is projected that by 2030 one in two French people will be of Muslim descent..please read my last question fully.

Are you against majority rule?