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Any Distinction Between Vengeance n Justice ?

 
 
Reply Wed 4 Dec, 2013 06:29 am

I believe that vengeance (with a reasonable degree of severity)
is the same as justice; it IS justice.

AGREE ??

If not, then please explain any difference
(other than reasonable degree of intensity of that revenge)
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Type: Discussion • Score: 4 • Views: 837 • Replies: 12
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fresco
 
  2  
Reply Wed 4 Dec, 2013 06:45 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Vengeance is personal. Justice is societal.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Dec, 2013 08:04 am
@OmSigDAVID,
I disagree with Fresco's distinction.

In any case, I see it this way:

Vengeance implies that a wrong was committed against which vengeance must be exacted.

Justice doesn’t.
Lordyaswas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Dec, 2013 08:46 am
@Frank Apisa,
There is a chance that vengeance may be personal, but may be outside the law.
Justice is always a societal process. Break one of society's laws, and justice is when the lawbreaker is punished accordingly.

A drug mule smuggles cocaine through customs, but then sells it and pockets the cash.
The drug baron who employed the mule finds him, strings him up and does dastardly things to him until he snuffs it.
Justice? I don't think so. Definitely vengeance, and nothing to do with the process of law.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Wed 4 Dec, 2013 08:52 am
@Lordyaswas,
Lordyaswas wrote:

There is a chance that vengeance may be personal, but may be outside the law.
Justice is always a societal process. Break one of society's laws, and justice is when the lawbreaker is punished accordingly.

A drug mule smuggles cocaine through customs, but then sells it and pockets the cash.
The drug baron who employed the mule finds him, strings him up and does dastardly things to him until he snuffs it.
Justice? I don't think so. Definitely vengeance, and nothing to do with the process of law.


I think you may be using a rather narrow definition of justice, L.

A worker does a better job for a company...and gets promoted. That is justice.

A soldier performs a particularly heroic deed...and is awarded a medal. That is justice.

A friend does you a big favor and you take him and his wife out to dinner. That is justice also.

Vengeance, on the other hand, ALWAYS implies a wrong has been committed...for which vengeance must be exacted.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Dec, 2013 09:54 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
Vengeance, on the other hand, ALWAYS implies a wrong has been committed...for which vengeance must be exacted.
"Always" only in the mind of the vengeful person. Or as her/his excuse for something unlawful.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Dec, 2013 12:15 pm
@fresco,
fresco wrote:
Vengeance is personal. Justice is societal.
I dunno.
Can u see a nation taking revenge
upon another nation for a perceived offense ?

On the other hand, if one man steals the property
of another who takes it back by force, is the owner being just? (i.e., being fair?)
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Dec, 2013 12:38 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
"Justice" can only be defined relative to the values of a particular society. To take an extreme socialist view for example, "property is theft".
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Dec, 2013 12:43 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Frank Apisa wrote:
Vengeance, on the other hand,
ALWAYS implies a wrong has been committed...for which vengeance must be exacted.
Walter Hinteler wrote:
"Always" only in the mind of the vengeful person.
Or as her/his excuse for something unlawful.
I think Frank means DEFINITIONALLY.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Dec, 2013 12:49 pm
@fresco,
fresco wrote:
"Justice" can only be defined relative to the values of a particular society.
To take an extreme socialist view for example, "property is theft".
So, u say, what is just in Brooklyn,
is not the same as what is fair in Staten Island?
(if county ordinances have conflicting values) right ?
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Dec, 2013 12:55 pm
@Lordyaswas,
Lordyaswas wrote:
There is a chance that vengeance may be personal, but may be outside the law.
Justice is always a societal process.
How 'd u apply that use of language
to a situation wherein a citizen is criminally convicted n incarcerated
for a crime whereof he is factually innocent??
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Dec, 2013 01:01 pm
Your neighbor's dog bites your daughter. So you have your dog bite his daughter (or if that isn't possible you bite her yourself).

That is an example of vengeance. Is it justice?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Dec, 2013 01:20 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
Your neighbor's dog bites your daughter.
So you have your dog bite his daughter
(or if that isn't possible you bite her yourself).[Can't u buy a dog and train him?]

That is an example of vengeance. Is it justice?
That 's good; I love your example, Max,
but what say u of definitional principles ?





David
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