A BRIDGE TOO FAR

You did great...especially against those experts...I was falling asleep though

Why? I was shocked when you said it was late.

you're in Dallas...an hour earlier...besides , takes a lot of concentration to play bridge for me.Did you like the site?

Yes I did, concentration is key.

I will go back an familiarize myself with the site before we play again. There were so many bells and whistles I was very distracted.

Plus I will read up so as not to be so behind the times.

but had a lot of fun.

OK so today I downloaded the SAYC so I can print and learn it. I went to bob twice yesterday and embarrased myself. So I decided to studyt up.

Most of the players where very nice but one guy said to me, "you cannot bid worth ****," and left the table before I even saw that he was gone or noticed the insult.

The Opps and I had a good laugh over it. How can you be insulted if you don't notice it?

Joanne...there's jerks in every bridge site(Yahoo is no exception) I recommend you join the Beg/Int lounge or BIL, where everyone is really nice. Just click on BIL for instructions.

OK

OK

OK

ok,
We bulking up our post numbers?

Yikes what happened? But wait if you look at the numbers they didn't count. All that work for nothing.

Hey everyone

Sorry so late to this thread; my bro (cav) just pointed me here.

I've been a professional bridge teacher for about 6 years, as a Commentator on okbridge's Fireside Bidding Sessions, an in-home teacher and a partner-for-hire at the NABC championships. I also have a library of near 100 bridge books, if anyone needs recommendations.

A couple of comments:

1. On-line bridge

If you're trying to improve, I don't recommend Yahoo as the place to do it. The quality of play, including the so-called advanced rooms, is extremely erratic and poor, rendering the majority of auctions and card-play meaningless.

I do recommend okbridge (paid) and bridgebase (free) as the 2 best places to play.

okbridge is the best (you kind try it out free for a month) - just stick to tables marked "novice" or "beginner", or play NC (non-competitive) mode. They also offer tons of free lessons and tutorials like Fireside.

bridgebase is less friendly, but has plenty of top players, and plenty of "eager advancers". Being free, the quality of play is slightly more erratic than okbridge, and people tend to disappear in the middle of hands, but it's still the best free place to catch a game. It was started by the famous Canadian player, Fred Gitelman, for those interested.

2. Bridge is a partnership game.

That being said, it's really irrelevant how familiar you are with modern-day conventions as long as you have agreements with your partner. If you want to play Goren-style against a pair playing SAYC, of course that's fine! Just make sure you and your partner agree on your style before you start. In the on-line world, you can just say: "Goren ok?" If your prospective partner says they don't know Goren, then leave (politely!) and find someone more compatible.

What you'll usually get is something like: "I play SAYC, but no weak 2's and no transfers" or some such thing. SAYC is really a mish-mash of conventions designed for convenience of new partnerships, but it is not a very effective overall system. Being familiar with it is a good idea so you know what your opponents' bids mean! Keep in mind that it's ALWAYS ok to ask your opponents what their bids mean. But make sure you ask the PARTNER OF THE PERSON WHO MADE THE BID, and not the bidder himself. Your opponents may have had a misunderstanding. And only ask when it's YOUR turn to bid. Say something like: "how did you take that bid?"

3. Bridge is fun!

Don't be intimidated by people you think are better than you. If ANYONE is rude to you at the table, just leave and find a friendlier group; don't try to "tough it out" as it will likely not improve. Keep things light and make sure everyone at the table is aware you're a novice BEFORE the game starts! You'd be surprised at how wonderful and helpful some people will end up being.

4. Books are wonderful, but playing's the thing!

Books are great resources and I recommend doing as much reading as possible, BUT make sure you're playing as often as possible to really internalize what you're reading! And don't by shy about playing just because you haven't finished reading a particular book! Just go out and play, and learn! Take notes during the session and look things up afterwards. Don't take on faith what other players at the table may say, as they may (a) be playing a different style, or (b) be just as clueless as you, but better at hiding it!

When you're reading, don't try mastering too much at once. For example, you could say to yourself, "ok, today I want to practice responding to an opening bid". So deal yourself 13 cards, and then pretend your partner opened the bidding 1-club. Then 1-diamond, 1-heart, 1-spade, 1-NT, 2C, 2D, 2H... etc. Think about what all those opening bids mean in your system, and practice responding with the hand you were dealt. Have a trustworthy book handy for reference. It's amazing how much practice you can get just with one hand!

That's all for now... the floor is open for questions/discussion!

Cheers,

mezzie

Thanks Mezzie.

Folks, I think we've found our moderator for this thread. Don't worry, the pay's good and you get all the bridge mix you can stomach.

Let me ask the first question oh bridge guru:

What's the difference between a take out and negative double and..

If an opponent doubles my p's bid at the 2 level...say 2 sp, what are their points and distribution?

mmmmmmm.... bridge mix............

OK, so to address the questions in order:

1. What's the difference between a take out and negative double?

Technically, a negative double is a kind of take out double.

In both cases, you're saying to your partner the following:
(a) I have enough points to bid something but no long suit
(b) I have good support for all the unbid suits
(c) please pick one of them and bid it at the appropriate level!

The difference is WHEN they happen during the auction.

The typical take-out double happens when your RHO (right-hand opponent) opens the bidding and you're next to speak.

For example, you hold:

S KQxx
H x
D Axxx
C KJTx

Your RHO opens 1H, what do you bid?

Well, clearly you want to say something, because you have an opening hand. Unfortunately, you don't have any long suit. You could overcall 1S, but you'd prefer to have 5 or more. Ditto for overcalling 2C or 2D. You can't bid 1NT because you don't have enough strength OR a heart stopper.

So what do you do? Are you stuck?

No! You can make a take-out double, telling your partner:

(a) I have an opening hand but no long suit
(b) I have good support for S, D and C, the 3 unbid suits
(c) Kepping (a) and (b) in mind, please bid accordingly!

As the partner of the take-out doubler, you have an OBLIGATION to choose your longest suit and bid it at the appropriate level. For a rough guideline, pretend the doubler OPENED the bidding with 1 of your longest suit.

For example, you hold:

S Axxxx
H xxx
D QJx
C xx

The bidding goes: 1H-double-?

Your partner was the doubler. Since you hold 5 spades, you'll clearly bid them. The question is: what level? Well, based on the above guideline, treat the double as though your partner OPENED 1S and bid accordingly. Here, you'd make a simple bid of 2S. Note that you COULD HAVE bid 1S, but you'd make that kind of bid with absolutely nothing.

Similarly, holding:

S Axxxx
H xxx
D KQx
C Qx

you'd respond 4S to the double.

And with:

S Axxxx
H xxx
D KQx
C Ax

you'd hunt for slam by CUE-BIDDING the opponents' suit, 2H, showing a great hand. We'll leave that topic for another time.

I'm going to make a new post to discuss negative doubles.

Now I said before that a NEGATIVE DOUBLE is a form of take-out double.

Let's see how...

OK, now you hold:

S xx
H AQxx
D QJx
C xxxx

Your partner opens 1D, and your RHO overcalls 1S. What do you say?

The auction: 1D-1S-?

This time, it seems like you're genuinely stuck. You don't have enough points to bid 2H (or enough length!), you don't have a spade stopper, so 1NT is out of the question.

Negative doubles were devised to deal with just this situation. Here, a double says:

(a) I have 6+ points but no suit to bid
(b) I have good support for H and C, the unbid suits
(c) Keeping (a) and (b) in mind, bid something! Do not pass!

Note that because your partner has ALREADY opened the bidding, you only need RESPONDER'S strength to make a negative double, NOT OPENENING strength. When you make a TAKE-OUT DOUBLE, your partner has not yet bid, so you need OPENING STRENGTH.

You may be thinking: "What if I want to make a penalty double here?"

Well, if you use negative doubles, you cannot make a penalty double at this level! Luckily, the number of times you'll want to make a negative double are FAR GREATER than the number of times you'll want to make a penalty double, at least at the 1 and 2 levels of bidding.

A couple of points:

1. To make a negative double at the 1-level, you need at least 6 points
2. At the 2 level, at least 10 points
3. You must discuss to what level negative doubles apply. 2S is typical. So if the auction goes: 1H-2S-double, the double is still negative, promising 10+ points and support for both minor suits. However, if the bidding goes: 1H-3C-double, then this double is for penalty!! Make sure you agree this with your partner beforehand. Other common levels are 3S or 4D.

Another example:

You hold:

xxx
xx
AKxx
KQxx

The auction goes: 1H-2S-?

Here, your partner opened 1H and your RHO overcalls 2S, taking up a ton of bidding space! Luckily, you play negative doubles, so you can double here, saying:

(a) 10+ points but no long suit to bid (and no support for hearts)
(b) support for D and C, the unbid suits
(c) Partner, please keep (a) and (b) in mind and bid accordingly!

Happy doubling!

Finally, I'll address the last question asked by the original poster:

2. If an opponent doubles my p's bid at the 2 level...say 2 sp, what are their points and distribution?

Keeping in mind everything I've said about take-out and negative doubles, you should be able to answer this question.

What you must keep in mind is, the answer changes based on

(a) the auction to that point
(b) your bidding system
(c) the opponents' bidding system

For example, say the auction goes (p=pass, d=double):

You-LHO-Partner-RHO
p - 1H - 2S - d

In this auction, your partner's 2S bid's meaning varies depending on your system. Some play jump overcalls as weak, and some as strong. Regardless, the meaning of RHO's double might be for penalty or it might be a negative double, depending on whether they are playing negative doubles. Make sense? So context is crucial to interpret bids.

If RHO's double is penalty, he'll probably hold something like:

S KQJxx
H x
D Axx
C QJxx

Notice here, RHO holds NO support for his partner's hearts (key!), long and strong in spades (the suit he's penalizing), and scattered outside strength. Sure, 3NT might be possible, but the penalty for beating 2S will likely be greater.

Now consider if opponents are playing negative doubles. In that case, RHO's hand will look more like the following:

S xxx
H xx
D AKxx
C KJTx

See my post on negative doubles if you don't see why!

Now, the original questioner may have had a totally different auction in mind. If so, let me know the entire auction leading up to the double, and we'll talk more about it.

Thank you p. May I call you p?

It's as clear as the azure sky

If by "p" you mean "partner", the usual Internet shorthand is actually "pd", like short for "pard". If by "p" you mean something else, then what is it?

p is partner where I play...there are no other issues here...I don't think

panzade, I warned you my brother was good...