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Religion and contradictions.

 
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Oct, 2013 07:13 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
If a2k wasn't fun, I'd still have plenty to do picking fleas off Toby.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Oct, 2013 07:16 pm
@mesquite,
mesquite wrote:
The editing chopping and messing with was not necessarily to make it neat and tidy or remove contradictions. More likely it was to reinforce a particular point of view, such as the well know additional verses 9-20 of Mark 16.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_16
Those verses don't appear in every translation. Not in the one I use, anyway.
0 Replies
 
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Oct, 2013 07:32 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Or the flood story could have been complete bullshit, which is about all you ever post here. I really have got to stop feeding the troll.


Good thinking, set, good thinking.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Oct, 2013 09:42 am
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo Fabulini wrote:
. . . Think in modern terms mate, the Ark was a "DNA repository craft", that's the only way they were able to get zillions of creatures in there, as tiny DNA samples. . .
Are you suggesting God told Noah to fabricate lab equipment?
0 Replies
 
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Oct, 2013 09:44 am
@Lustig Andrei,
Quote:
Good thinking, set, good thinking.
Careful there, Andy, you'll upset the poor fella and he'll attack you mercilessly anon

Sorry S., just couldn't resist
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Oct, 2013 10:27 am
Guys, guys, you're so oldfashioned and fundy in your thinking!
Surely you don't think there was room on a boat for a zillion full-sized creatures ?
Only by taking tiny DNA samples aboard could it have been done..Smile

"Of the birds according to their kinds, and of the animals according to their kinds, of every creeping thing of the ground according to its kind,two of every kind shall come into you to keep them alive....At the end of the hundred and fifty days the water had gone down" (Genesis 6:19-22,Gen 8:3)

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Romeo Fabulini: he shoots, he scores!
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/zu1sA_zps94c5327a.jpg~original
coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Oct, 2013 11:35 am
Regarding Buddhism, the best basic statement or credo I've heard is, "The difference is the identity." Anything else regarding Buddhism seems awfully wordy and superfluous. One of the Buddha's sermons was the Flower Sutra in which he merely held up a flower, saying nothing.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Oct, 2013 02:50 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo Fabulini wrote:
Guys, guys, you're so oldfashioned and fundy in your thinking!
Surely you don't think there was room on a boat for a zillion full-sized creatures ?
Only by taking tiny DNA samples aboard could it have been done..
More like 1,300,000. About 60% are insects. Many, mammals such as porpoises, could easily survive outside the ark. Only about 300 or so species of mammals are larger than sheep. Plus it was not necessary to include every variation of every species. Seems doable to me.

Unless you think Moses lied.
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Oct, 2013 03:03 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:
Unless you think Moses lied.


Moses had nothing to do with it, of course. If, in fact, he actually wrote the book of Genesis (otherwise known as the First Book of Moses) he was merely repeating the old Mesopotamian legend of Gilgamesh. He didn't make up the story. The early pagan inhabitants of the land between the rivers did.
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Oct, 2013 04:04 pm
The early books of the bible were often written in metaphor and symbology; for example the "talking snake" in Eden was simply a symbol for Satan.
Same with the Ark story, it's a symbol for physical and spiritual survival in a hostile environment.
I mean, if it was taken literally it would have meant Noah would have had to go on safari around the world to round up and cage lions, tigers, hippos, buffalos, giraffes, crocs, kangaroos, polar bears etc and transport them back to the Ark.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Fri 18 Oct, 2013 09:02 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
The talking snake was not at all a symbol for Satan.

It is clear that the serpent was a serpent because God punishes the animal (and all of its descendants). This wouldn't make any sense to punish real serpents if the culprit were Satan.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Oct, 2013 09:30 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Lustig Andrei wrote:
Moses had nothing to do with it, of course. If, in fact, he actually wrote the book of Genesis (otherwise known as the First Book of Moses) he was merely repeating the old Mesopotamian legend of Gilgamesh. He didn't make up the story. The early pagan inhabitants of the land between the rivers did.
Other flood stories may seem to predate the time of Moses' writing. I would aver they are accounts of the same event and serve to validate rather than discount the time when Jehovah acted to bring destruction on the majority of mankind. Of all the stories, only that of Genesis explains the Greek/Roman pantheon and gives additional reason for Jehovah's act. If, indeed, angels had forsaken the spirit realm to form hybrid offspring, this could not be allowed to continue.
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Oct, 2013 10:25 pm
Maxdonca said:
The talking snake was not at all a symbol for Satan
Haha since when can snakes talk?
Incidentally mate, your profile is blank, so just for the record what are you, a snake-cultist or something?..Smile
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Oct, 2013 01:36 am
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo Fabulini wrote:
Incidentally mate, your profile is blank, so just for the record what are you, a snake-cultist or something?
No profile, but at least a few followers.
0 Replies
 
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Oct, 2013 02:08 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Lustig Andrei wrote:
Moses had nothing to do with it, of course. If, in fact, he actually wrote the book of Genesis (otherwise known as the First Book of Moses) he was merely repeating the old Mesopotamian legend of Gilgamesh. He didn't make up the story. The early pagan inhabitants of the land between the rivers did.
Other flood stories may seem to predate the time of Moses' writing. I would aver they are accounts of the same event and serve to validate rather than discount the time when Jehovah acted to bring destruction on the majority of mankind. Of all the stories, only that of Genesis explains the Greek/Roman pantheon and gives additional reason for Jehovah's act. If, indeed, angels had forsaken the spirit realm to form hybrid offspring, this could not be allowed to continue.


Let's not forget that all these early stories have their origin among peoples who inhabited the region we sometimes call the Fertile Crescent. That there was more than one severe and devastating flood episode in that region is not a matter of doubt. Nobody questions that some really severe floods inundated the area from time to time. What this has to do with an angry god is strictly a matter between that god and the people with fertile imaginations, no understanding of meteorology and a guilt complex of some sort.
0 Replies
 
IRFRANK
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Oct, 2013 07:33 pm
@fresco,
I love your answers, Fresco.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Oct, 2013 09:04 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
Quote:

1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”

2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”

4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the Lord God called to the man, “Where are you?”

10 He answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.”

11 And he said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?”

12 The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”

13 Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”

The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”

14 So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this,

“Cursed are you above all livestock
and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.

15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring[a] and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.”


Read the text of the Bible (from Genesis 3). It says clearly in verse 1 that the serpent was one of the wild animals that God made. Then in verse 14, God curses the animal by making it crawl in the dust and would be hated by women.

The word "serpent" in this passage clearly refers to a serpent.

I am no snake-cultist. I am simply a guy who has read the Bible.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Oct, 2013 04:39 pm
@Cyracuz,
No, no, and no.

You, like many others, are viewing religion not as it really is but as it is asserted to be by zealots, and in so doing you are giving it a mystical quality which I assume you would argue it doesn't deserve.

This is yet another thread intended to question (or even mock) orthodox religious views. This is all well and good, but you, as so many others do, seem to want to insist that religion can be considered in the absence of the religious.

Religions are constructs of humans which (in the case of most of them) originated many centuries ago. It would be utterly amazing if they did not contain contradictions at some level. Most of the contradictions are between early and latter teachings which is to be expected of a developing way of viewing life and the universe.

The fact that many religious zealots insist that all of their religion is the direct product of an infallable God opens the door wide to charges of contradictions.
However, attacking such claims, seems to me, to be the equivalent of attacking a child for his or her view of the world.

It's an easy way to score points, but it's hardly a trumph of the intellect.

What is gained by pointing out (for the one millionith time) that there are contradictions between what is written in the Old Testament and the New Testament or what is written in the Koran and what is preached in a particular Mosque?






izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Sun 20 Oct, 2013 05:27 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
What is gained by pointing out (for the one millionith time) that there are contradictions between what is written in the Old Testament and the New Testament or what is written in the Koran and what is preached in a particular Mosque?


Jesus points. I currently have 337.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Oct, 2013 05:32 pm
@izzythepush,
Name a few
 

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